GW 50 York 3 F
- Thread starter SilverHelmets
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I said at the beginning of the year that the WSS cannot be compared with the top conferences until York and DGN get back to being at least respectable. Looks like it is still a few years away.
Over the previous 6 seasons, the average score of the GW-York game has been 42-7, so this year's 50-3 score is an outlier for sure. Strange as this may sound, this season's York team is one of the better York teams I've seen in the recent past. They play well on both sides of the ball. Tough kids who don't quit. Best wishes to The Dukes for the remainder of 2017.
But, I'm not sure why a conference with GW, LT, H C, and OPRF should not be considered one of the top conferences. It clearly is.
But, I'm not sure why a conference with GW, LT, H C, and OPRF should not be considered one of the top conferences. It clearly is.
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You're being nice, good for you. I'll say it though, York sucks.
Any team that shows up every week and plays their guts out on Friday night or Saturday afternoon doesn't suck. I know those kids at York are working hard and trying to improve every day. Gotta live their grit.Now, the plate umpire at the Cubs game on Friday...he sucked on Friday of sure!
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Lets not give them a participation trophy. Lots of athletes in that school, success in other programs but they inexplicably suck at football year after year.
I am not a fan of their play calling. Thought the kids showed good will in the first half but trying to cover Pierce will drive most teams crazy.
I really liked the #1 kid from York against AT but he was never on the field today so guessing he was hurt.
I really liked the #1 kid from York against AT but he was never on the field today so guessing he was hurt.
It should be a top conference but other than GW who produces playoff wins? None of those school has had much playoff success in the last 5 years. I would say it's on par with the MSL west. An above average conference.
Yep, I have to say that you make a great point. And without GW the conference is kinda average. You're right. Not taking anything away from LT, HC or OPRF, but these teams have been good enough to go deeper in the playoffs than actual past performance, especially OPRF and LT.
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"Hot mess"? How so?
3 teams in Edgy's top 21 overall regardless of level. I honestly have no idea, how many other conferences (if any) can claim that at this point?
https://edgytim.rivals.com/news/week-4-chicagoland-top-30-2
If we are measuring post season success it is hard to argue that the WSS has any case for arguing about their depth. It has been a long time since anyone not GW that has played in Week 12.
As far as this season goes, York as assumed the cellar based on an offense that has failed to score double digits in 4 contests. DGN is far par for their course and might pick up five wins if some chips fall. PW is not likely to play in the post season but at least they are showing signs of life by staying within two scores of LT and already surpassing '16's point total.
LT is looking good not great and will face a slew of powerhouses in an 8A run. GW was humbled by MS and appears to need a 7A seeding to become legit title chasers. OPRF is never a threat in post season due to wrestling overlap, but an early loss this year is more of a function of schedule timing as they played a WSS Big-4 team earlier than any recent years. HC may be shaping up into a beast as they overcome their own Week 1 humbling in Ohio.
Not sure it is quite a hot mess overall, but if the adage of as GW goes, so goes the rep of the WSS, then I can't argue that '17 might end up being a down year for the WSS. So much football to be played but so far...
As far as this season goes, York as assumed the cellar based on an offense that has failed to score double digits in 4 contests. DGN is far par for their course and might pick up five wins if some chips fall. PW is not likely to play in the post season but at least they are showing signs of life by staying within two scores of LT and already surpassing '16's point total.
LT is looking good not great and will face a slew of powerhouses in an 8A run. GW was humbled by MS and appears to need a 7A seeding to become legit title chasers. OPRF is never a threat in post season due to wrestling overlap, but an early loss this year is more of a function of schedule timing as they played a WSS Big-4 team earlier than any recent years. HC may be shaping up into a beast as they overcome their own Week 1 humbling in Ohio.
Not sure it is quite a hot mess overall, but if the adage of as GW goes, so goes the rep of the WSS, then I can't argue that '17 might end up being a down year for the WSS. So much football to be played but so far...
I'm not sure what time range you are interested in, but LT, DGN, HC and of course GW have produced lots of playoff wins if we start at the early 2000s and work up till 2017. LT in particular as of late has made a few quarter final appearances. DGN and HC were powerhouses for a while dating from 01-08. And I think there were a couple years in there where York made decent runs. I'm not sure if maxpreps still offers it, but you can fact check me by scrolling thru the archives of schedules for these schools going back to about 2002. And then of course there is GW.
If you're interested in the last 6 or so years, LT and GW have had the most impressive playoff runs and it should be conceded that the WSS hasn't been as impressive come November. Although it should also be noted that DGN made a quarter final appearance in 2012 (a loss to Benet, who then went on to lose to LWE, who then lost to GW in the final) and has had a couple surprising first round victories as well.
"Down year" is one thing, and I'm not even ready to concede that. "Hot mess" is a whole different level. Again, with what we know now 3 of the best 21 teams in the state. That's a challenge for a conference title.
I agree GW has been the standard bearer for the WSS in the playoffs the last 5 years or so. HC and LT's playoff experiences have been nothing to sneeze at though; making the playoffs most years and making the 2nd or 3rd round semi-regularly. These things are cyclical though, only 5 and 6 years ago LT was the one advancing the furthest to the round of 8.
I agree with you and the OP though that I'm still in a bit of a "wait and see" mode on a few of the WSS teams.
Good post and I agree. I don't think anyone can argue that the past half decade GW deserves the kudos, but that's a pretty small period of time to sample from and others have made good runs. There are an awful lot of really good 8-A programs and conferences, schools like LT and HC (and DGN) have nothing to be ashamed of with regards to their results.
I did say the last 5 years. Not going to use 01-08. The start of that was nearly 20 years ago. A lot has changed. Yes York made the semis in 06. That's over a decade ago... in the last 5 years we haven't seen much out of any other team other than GW. Quarterfinal appearances after beating CPS schools don't really count for much imo.
Ah, gotcha.
I don't know what years and match ups you have in mind. I know LT drew a CPS school a couple times in the first round, but they have also beaten some good teams during their recents runs as well (they handled a great Marist team in the first round not too long ago, that's gotta count for something, right?). DGN also beat a good Batavia team in 2012 in the first round on their way to the quarters. So I don't think those quarter final appearances don't count for much. Though we both agree that overall the WSS hasn't been *that* impressive come playoff time the past 5 years.
I disagree, LT people talk like they have a marquee program but in reality their history is pretty weak. The school is pretty strong athletically, they've had lots of success in a wide variety of sports but their football program has been mostly mediocre for 100 years. Despite the success in other sports LT has never won a football state championship, they've never played for one or even played for the right to play for one. As a matter of fact 2010 was their first quarterfinal appearance in 93 years of existence. 2010 wasn't some remarkable run either, they beat CVS and Sandburg before getting pounded by Mt Carmel 41-10. The following year they also made the quarterfinals! They beat powerhouse programs like Bartlett and Glenbrook South before losing 33-10 to Loyola. 2012 they made their 3rd quarterfinal appearance in a row (3rd in school history) and "handled" a solid Marist team 34-28 as well as beating O'Fallon before losing 45-10 to Mt Carmel.
Weinberg gets a lot of credit around LT circles but his quarterfinal appearances are far less impressive when you dig deeper and they obviously couldn't hang once they ran into a good team. 6 of his 8 seasons they snuck into the playoffs at 5-4. Weinberg has elevated LT's program but but they are still the very definition of mediocre.
That was a nice unmasking, historical post. I hadn't remembered the specifics of those runs. Although the 2012 was impressive IMO. Knocked off Marist, O'Fallon and then that MC team was the eventual state champion. MC was loaded that year.
How will that slate be interesting? Should be 3 blowouts. Maybe PW can keep it close but the other two games will be uncompetitive
You might be surprised. And, I'm interested to see if GW continues its rate of improvement in a few key areas, if York can hang with HC for more than a half, and if OPRF has enough to beat PW by more than a TD or 2.
My response to Chuck was going to be very similar to SH, but I do think there are some interesting developments to watch:
1. Is the PW revival for real? PW stayed within two scores of LT easily covering the 5 TD spread. If PW is gaining confidence from these close calls, they may be building toward a huge upset at PW against a sleepy OPRF this Saturday. OPRF has rarely played well on Saturday afternoons.
2. Has GW's defense coalesced around seniors Diver (LB) and Fenske (DE) with the youngsters gaining key development time? DGN hasn't scored on Hetlet in years but the TO looked revived before HC flattened them. Is HC that good or is DGN not? A 35-21 score in this game might be a win for GW but would chip away at the credibility of the defensive rebuild.
3. HC at York has ZERO interesting elements. HC is 7 TD favorites and nothing will get in the way of a complete slaughter. Sorry
From what I have heard, he was injured when his replacement came onto the field. His replacement tripped and fell. #1 tried jumping over him and got injured. Wish I was making that one up.
So it was an inside job?!?!
I hope he gets better because he was, by far, the best baller York had on offense.
I heard both are recovering from ankle sprains, but that part of the story was left out. Hope they are back this weekend.
Your list has a lot in common with mine, but I think the HC/York game has the potential to be closer and more interesting. And my list for GW is a little longer, too.
On York vs HC: from what I've seen of HC they seem to be falling into a rhythm. Offense has a new look this year. The junior QB is starting to find his confidence and there is no doubt that he is an athlete. He can run and throw. The junior RB may be the hardest runner in the conference and started all last year as a sophomore (and he will be one of the better wrestlers in the state this year at his weight class). On top of that HC has a huge TE that blocks with no remorse and can catch the ball, plus a three year starter slot/wr/wing back that runs/catches well. I just don't see York slowing them down.
The defense is young but I'd say they have been the most pleasant surprise so far. Besides the beatdown in Ohio they've looked decent. Willobrook's RB gave them some difficulty but that kid is an absolute beast (anyone else see Willobrook beat AT 45-0?). Besides those two notes the D is looking good at least given how young they are. I'm thinking it won't be too competitive vs the Dukes.
The defense is young but I'd say they have been the most pleasant surprise so far. Besides the beatdown in Ohio they've looked decent. Willobrook's RB gave them some difficulty but that kid is an absolute beast (anyone else see Willobrook beat AT 45-0?). Besides those two notes the D is looking good at least given how young they are. I'm thinking it won't be too competitive vs the Dukes.
In defense of my interest in the HC/York game (jeesh), if York can string together four solid quarter of effort similar to their effort in the last half against LT (a game with a spread of only 25 points), or similar to the first quarter against GW, then they can hang with HC. I'm not saying they can hang with HC, only that I'm interested to see if they can pull themselves out of the funk of a 47 point loss to GW (unlike what AT was able to do last weekend against Willowbrook after the 4th quarter beating they took from GW), then they could make the HC game into something to watch. And it would be equally interesting to see how HC reacts to a close game with York, should York actually step up.
Obviously...lol.Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays
I left with West up 35-7 thinking the would put 49 or 56 on DGN because they had yet to even force a 4th down. Not sure what happened.
If you want to be honest , I think you have an axe to grind and have no idea what you are talking about. I've never heard one --not one -- LT parent or student say they were a " marquee" program. If anything they seem to feel overshadowed by GW and HC's success. And your criticisms of Weinberg seem shallow and biased. And no he "doesn't get a lot of credit". By whom exactly? In LT circles the rumors were just the exact opposite, that he was on borrowed time and plenty of rumors about his replacement. Those seem to have died out fortunately.
Anything positive to add instead?
Lol fortunately? Meh I applaud your loyalty but no I have nothing positive to say about Kurt Weinberg. You want positive? Your kid looks solid at corner.
I have no "ax to grind" I don't like Weinberg and don't like the way people talk about LT's program. I know enough of those guys/gals. Sometimes when your too close to the situation you don't get an accusatory portrayal of it. Lots of LT people with a very inflated sense of their programs worth. I just layered it all out there in the post you quoted, if you question me now, read it again I have nothing more to say about it.
I wish those kids nothing but the best, there are some really great kids in that program that I've gotten to know through my boys over the years. I root for them to win weekly even though deep down I'd rather not listen to the parents at social functions when they do.
You can argue with me all you want about my opinions but I fail to see the point of you telling me I'm wrong about things I've heard like you somehow know better. Talk to the people I talk to and you'd know during Fenwick's run last year all I heard about was how LT was better, bla bla bla. Fenwick made it further last year than LT had in their 100 year history. #Facts
