Looks like an aerial war this weekend in Minnesota. Erdman led D3 in passing yards with 3352, Zimbelman was fourth with 3182. Zimbelman led D3 with 51 td passes, Erdman tied for eighth with 32. Aurora was 4th in ppg at 49.4, St. Johns gave up 11.4...St. Johns averaged 41 ppg (20th), while AU gave up 22.5. Zimbelman led D3 in total offense with 353.7 ypg, Erdmann 3rd with 348.8.
D3 football
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Looks like an aerial war this weekend in Minnesota. Erdman led D3 in passing yards with 3352, Zimbelman was fourth with 3182. Zimbelman led D3 with 51 td passes, Erdman tied for eighth with 32. Aurora was 4th in ppg at 49.4, St. Johns gave up 11.4...St. Johns averaged 41 ppg (20th), while AU gave up 22.5. Zimbelman led D3 in total offense with 353.7 ypg, Erdmann 3rd with 348.8.
Maybe in past years, but ST didn't make the D3 playoffs this year. Again, they couldn't get past a UW EC team that lost to St. Norbert this year.
But they beat at top 10 team in Bethel. UST is ranked 14th in the D3.com poll. And the #11, #14 and #15 teams in the top 25 didn't make the D3 playoffs. That's more a statement about how D3 playoffs are structured vs. how good UST is. St Thomas is down a notch from their heyday of 2012-2017, no doubt. Kind of ironic that a team that's missed the playoffs 2 years in a row got kicked out of its conference (MIAC) for winning too much in all sports.
Yeah about like a war between the United States and Jamaica would go....
Hate to burst bubbles around here but the quality of the D3 conferences that are played in by Illinois teams are bad. North Central and Wheaton are the only decent teams in Illinois or any of the conferences played in by Illinois teams.
A lot of guys do. I had the privilege of seeing one of my former AU teammates coach last weekend at a D1 program. It also makes you proud to look at Oswego East, Oswego, Yorkville and Marengo, where all those coaches played at AU in the mid to late 90s, and Im sure there's more. Coach Scott is a class act. He, coach Cooper, Betustak, Walsh, Nauman, Hefty and McMahon were a great group of leaders during my time there. I was fortunate to be a part of the independent years and then experience some success during the first year we went to conference play. It's good to see the program back on track. We had some really good years, knocking of Leslie Frazier's team at Trinity, Swider's teams at Wheaton College, Valpo and it was always meaningful to spar with Benedictine and IWU. I feel like heading over to Stoney's.....LOL.
This is so off. The CCIW is one of the top 5 conferences in d3. The NACC isn’t very good but the MWC is okay.
North central and Wheaton are not “decent”. Uninformed post.
No, the CCIW teams outside of these 2 are not good, sorry. I follow D3 football closer than most.
Look at these records the entire bottom half of the league is a losing record. The middle grouping isn’t anything to write home about either unless you want to talk about Augustana in the 1980’s.
Wheaton # 9-0 10-0
North Central 8-1 9-1
WashU 6-3 7-3
Illinois Wesleyan 6-3 6-4
Augustana 5-4 6-4
Millikin 4-5 5-5
Carthage 4-5 4-6
Carroll 1-8 2-8
Elmhurst 1-8 1-9
North Park 1-8 1-9
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Those two top teams carry them in the conference and as long as you have a couple top teams the lack of depth isn’t going to hurt you much in these conference rankings because the fact is most d3 conferences don’t have much depth beyond the top few teams. MIAC for instance who they have high in the rankings only have 3 good teams: St. John’s, St Thomas, and Bethel... after that trash. And the fact is there’s not that much good depth in programs nationally either. That’s why you have the same handful of teams competing for the top every year. A lot of so so teams with good records due to the lack of quality competition and conference depth. When you talk d3 it’s really a waste in my book to talk conferences you might just as well talk teams on their own merits due to the disparity between the few competitive teams and all the rest.
I follow d3 closer than most as well. Wash u and Wesleyan are both very good d3 teams. Augie had a solid year this year.
The measure of conferences is top to bottom. Carrol elmhurst and north park are not good right now, although they would be mid tier in a lot of other conferences.
Round 2 game will be tough and then likely match up against St Johns who I would favor if had to put my own money on it. Their semi final game would be Mary Hardin Baylor and they would be the favorite for the national championship again so they have several chances to stumble and while they might get by one or even 2 can’t imagine they survive all 3.
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The teams you just mentioned as “very good d3 teams” only look somewhat okay due to the weakness of their conference; they had 5 gimme wins in conference. And that’s if you wanna call teams who go 6-4 really good?! See my reply to clownbaby regarding conferences and teams in d3 in general there isn’t much depth in either..... the top teams are the same few repeatedly and not many conferences have great depth beyond the top few teams in each.
Carroll was consistently in the top 3-4 of the Midwest Conference before switching leagues and becoming a CCIW punching bag and Wash U was a top dog in the SAA before moving.
Wesleyan was 6-4 and lost to a 7-3 uw lacrosse in a really close game. I would classify lacrosse as really good as well.
This may be the best team they have had I think they get to the Semi finals but beating Mary Hardin Baylor in Texas is a tall task.
They left the UAA for the SAA before going to the CCIW. They consistently won the UAA also.
The D3 playoffs will be an interesting story to follow this year. Yes, Wheaton is set for a long playoff run but facing MHB will be tough. My blood bleeds Cardinal red for NCC though. Yeah, Wheaton has had NCC number the last few games, but over the last 10 years the series has been pretty back and forth. To think the CCIW is a lesser conference ? Please. If NCC gets past Wabash on Saturday, and beats Mount Union on the road ( tall order ) they should make it all the way to the championship game. We will see.
There is a very good chance that we know each other. I was out a couple of years coaching at East High than back to the University for a couple of years.
Sure we had a couple at the rock together
You could say that about anyone.... if they beat mount union.... they should make it to the championship.... thanks captain obvious.... but they aren’t beating mount union..... and 2 good teams at the top does not make it a good conference.
Please rank the top 10 conferences in D3 and tell me where the CCIW is since you have said multiple times it’s not a good conference.
I would definitely have CCIW in the top 3 conferences in the country top to bottom. Behind the WIAC and MIAC and maybe as good as the MIAC. Just my thoughts though.
Last night I gave you a long post addressing this topic as related to conferences and quality teams in general in d3 and the lack of depth of both. I’m not going to rehash it and retype it but you are free to re-read it if you like. But in short the rankings you refered to basically are just rankings of how good the top teams are in the respective conferences because few have enough depth to be good conferences top to bottom. So by default the good conferences are magically the conferences with the following teams at the top of them: St. John’s, st Thomas, Mary Hardin Baylor, whitewater, Wheaton, NCC, Mount union and a few others. Basically the top of the conferences dictates the supposed quality of the conference due to almost all of them having a lack of depth beyond the top 2 or at most 3 teams.
MIAC is another great example: top 3 good: St. John’s, st Thomas, bethel.... after that terrible.
I saw Wash U play the last couple of years since they joined the CCIW. I'm very impressed with how well coached that team is. Very, very disciplined. I understand the head coach is retiring after 36 years at the school. Congrats on a job well done!
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MWC is not okay, especially with St. Norbert leaving next year for the NACC, and with Grinnell cancelling their 2019 season due to injuries and a small roster. BTW, since 2016, NACC schools have gone 9-3 against MWC schools in non-conference play.
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I'll play....just wanna make sure I have this right...Gustavus went 7-3, finished 4th in the MIAC and outscored their opponents 448-286, and that's terrible? Terrible relative to their conference? No. Terrible relative to Mount Union, sure. Concordia Moorhead went 5-5, lost 20-10 to Whitewater and took LaCrosse to OT and that's terrible? Terrible is Hamlin, who went 0-8, was outscored 459-98. Terrible is Augsburg, who went 2-8 and lost most games by 40+ points. Blanket statements like that are just lazy. But Mount Union plays at a level where they could win a MAC game or two, in my view.
It is absolutely true that the conference viewed as the best in D3 (WIAC, MIAC, CCIW, OAC) are great at the top (2-3 teams), ok in the middle (2 teams), and not at all competitive at the bottom (4-5 teams). There is a huge gap from top to bottom in all those. The top teams pull the whole conference along in any debate on who's best.
Here's the deal w/ D3....set conferences aside...there are maybe 5 teams that any given year can make the Stagg Bowl. There are maybe another 5 that might make the semis. After that, there are another 20 teams that have really good programs and can win a couple playoff games some years. Then there are another 20-30 teams that will likely go 7-3 or 6-4 in their conferences and provide decent competition to the top teams in their conferences. After that folks, there 180 teams playing D3 ball that really can't come close to cracking the layers I just laid out.
What I also find to be true is that the gap is widening. I think the top 10 teams in D3 have excellent programs and demonstrate consistency year in and year out. However, the bottoms are falling way behind in some conferences. For example, just 6 seasons ago, the average margin of victory in MIAC conference games was 19 points, with just 2 games decided by more than 50 points. This year, it was 32 points, with 7 games having a margin of victory over 50 points (in 2018 there were *TEN* conference games decided by over 50 points). I would venture the same might be true for CCIW and OAC.
After your Gustavus defense you echoed everything I had been saying. Ever consider Gustavus had the record they had and the points they scored due to all the bottom feeders in their conference? You must have a connection there. But I’m not going to get into a back and forth debate just to hash out Gustavus. You agreed with me on everything else.... there is a lack of depth in almost all d3 conferences, they are only judged by the top few teams in the conference and there is an overall lack of depth among teams in the division as well. Let’s just all agree that when addressing d3 its best to talk about individual teams because there is no SEC or Big 10 type deep conferences... they are all more like the ACC.... a powerhouse or 2 up top and then a huge drop off.
The disparity from top to bottom in D3 is no different than any other level of college football except for the fact that I believe there are twice as many teams as FCS, FBS or D2.. D3 is like FCS and FBS combined. Imagine what that would look like if a few FCS schools were put in a conference with Alabama and Auburn. this is like teh CCL where they have crossover games think Loyola v Depaul Prep.
Not so sure I agree with where you say it's best to talk about individual teams. I think it's okay to address D3 in terms of conference strength.
The top 2-3 teams in the top 5 D3 conferences will routinely give a beat down to the top 2-3 teams in most other D3 conferences. The also rans of the WIAC would destroy the also rans of the MWC.
Everything is relative.
I have no Gustavus connections at all, just very informed about the MIAC. Here's where Gustavus was very competitive this year:
9/14 at UW-Stout • W, 41-31
9/21 at St. John's * • L, 33-21
9/28 vs. Bethel * • L, 35-33
10/12 at Concordia-Moorhead * • W, 35-28
Gustavus also beat Martin Luther 50-19 to open the season. The same Martin Luther that won their conference and made the playoffs.
You just can't lump Gustavus (or Wash U, or IWU, or LaCrosse, or Platteville or Baldwin Wallace) in with the Hamlins, Capitals or North Parks of the D3 world
9/14 at UW-Stout • W, 41-31
9/21 at St. John's * • L, 33-21
9/28 vs. Bethel * • L, 35-33
10/12 at Concordia-Moorhead * • W, 35-28
Gustavus also beat Martin Luther 50-19 to open the season. The same Martin Luther that won their conference and made the playoffs.
You just can't lump Gustavus (or Wash U, or IWU, or LaCrosse, or Platteville or Baldwin Wallace) in with the Hamlins, Capitals or North Parks of the D3 world
The also rans in the WIAC probably beat the top of the MWC. This whole debate got going when I was so bold as to declare that there were no real quality d3 teams in Illinois beyond Wheaton and NCC.... then all the defenders started talking about how good these bad (overall) conferences are...
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