Can any program lose 4 D1 players and still win?

[EdgyTim]

Hard to fathom. Mount Carmel has lost two players to IMG in Houston Griffith and Verdis Brown and now two have transferred to Phillips in Jahleel Billingsly and now Terrance Taylor.

Can the Caravan remain at or near the top of the CCL Blue? Lots to consider at this time of the year...

 

[BBCHS77]

Phillips being non multiplied and in 3A/4A is pathetic.

 

[ramblinman]

Hard to fathom. Mount Carmel has lost two players to IMG in Houston Griffith and Verdis Brown and now two have transferred to Phillips in Jahleel Billingsly and now Terrance Taylor.

Can the Caravan remain at or near the top of the CCL Blue? Lots to consider at this time of the year...

If any team can weather losses like that and still be competitive, the Caravan can.

 

[Normdog]

Phillips being non multiplied and in 3A/4A is pathetic.

I NEVER agree with you. This is the first time ever, but, could not more strongly agree.

 

[BBCHS77]

My gut feeling is the IHSA remembers back to Jackie Robinson West and chooses to stick their head in the sand.. but when you recruit from the city, charge no tuition and then compete in the small school fields,, thats a joke.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

My gut feeling is the IHSA remembers back to Jackie Robinson West and chooses to stick their head in the sand.. but when you recruit from the city, charge no tuition and then compete in the small school fields,, thats a joke.

Boo - f'ing hoo. Stop whining and get better. Whiners don't win championships they just bitch and moan about those that do.

 

[BBCHS77]

Boo - f'ing hoo. Stop whining and get better. Whiners don't win championships they just bitch and moan about those that do.

When one school can attract from 2.8 million and the rest are drawing from 10K, anyone that says what you did is completely ignorant. Phillips gets better by bringing in transfers, the rest cant do that.

 

[jwarigaku]

Edgy,

In the last 3 years they are 3-9 in the Blue. Not so sure that's even competitive let alone near the top? I think the bigger question to be asked is WHY are the kids leaving? It's not playing time, so what's the real root cause?

Hard to fathom. Mount Carmel has lost two players to IMG in Houston Griffith and Verdis Brown and now two have transferred to Phillips in Jahleel Billingsly and now Terrance Taylor.

Can the Caravan remain at or near the top of the CCL Blue? Lots to consider at this time of the year...

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

When one school can attract from 2.8 million and the rest are drawing from 10K, anyone that says what you did is completely ignorant. Phillips gets better by bringing in transfers, the rest cant do that.

Just curious but does Rochester bring in that many transfers? Evanston TWP HS is in a town of nearly 75,000 why aren't they better? That's a fairly large base to pull from?

How about De La Salle? They pull from over a Million people why aren't they better?

DePaul Prep?

I can keep going down the list. If pulling from a large populous is the only reason why these schools are better, I can go all over the country to private schools with a large recruiting map that aren't perennial winners.

Stop being so dam bitter. Get better at the sport or pick up Badmitten

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Edgy,

In the last 3 years they are 3-9 in the Blue. Not so sure that's even competitive let alone near the top? I think the bigger question to be asked is WHY are the kids leaving? It's not playing time, so what's the real root cause?

JW I think you finally hit it. What Mt Carmel runs is not a sexy modern-day style of offense. Does that have an effect on whether kids stay? Now some of the kids are linemen, but is this the new wave of the future? We see it in basketball with the diploma just add water academies. How long before we have 5-6 IMG type programs that promise the moon and stars but instead end up no HBO Real Sports for being called out as a fraud.

 

[mc140]

When one school can attract from 2.8 million and the rest are drawing from 10K, anyone that says what you did is completely ignorant. Phillips gets better by bringing in transfers, the rest cant do that.

Rochester can and does. But that's ok...

 

[flyerforlife]

To all those who have never coached HS sports ever heres a little note for you. Instead of being so concerned about what other schools are doing whether its illegal or not i will use any school as the example, dont give yourself a stroke by getting upset with the fact they are bringing in kids and your program isnt. Theres a reason why kids go to schools. For example kids are transfering to and coming in to Phillips as freshman because they are getting scholarship offers.

If you have a problem with schools going out getting kids why dont you do a better job for your own program by getting good athletes. Im not against Phillips any school getting athletes but obviously they figured out what it takes to get kids in there and they are successful.

I dont agree with illegal recruiting by any school for any kid. But it happens all the time unfortunately some schools get away with it. While others get caught just the way it goes. Everyone complains until something like a prize athlete falls on their roster then they have nothing to say.

Id be more concerned with putting a good product on the field every Friday night and making sure my team is well prepared then I would be worried about where the next transfer is going too next.

Not my post but I agree with this 1000%

 

[epicbret]

Just curious but does Rochester bring in that many transfers? Evanston TWP HS is in a town of nearly 75,000 why aren't they better? That's a fairly large base to pull from?

How about De La Salle? They pull from over a Million people why aren't they better?

DePaul Prep?

I can keep going down the list. If pulling from a large populous is the only reason why these schools are better, I can go all over the country to private schools with a large recruiting map that aren't perennial winners.

Stop being so dam bitter. Get better at the sport or pick up Badmitten

Plz, Hinsdale South would smoke them in badminton

 

[BBCHS77]

To all those who have never coached HS sports ever heres a little note for you. Instead of being so concerned about what other schools are doing whether its illegal or not i will use any school as the example, dont give yourself a stroke by getting upset with the fact they are bringing in kids and your program isnt. Theres a reason why kids go to schools. For example kids are transfering to and coming in to Phillips as freshman because they are getting scholarship offers.

If you have a problem with schools going out getting kids why dont you do a better job for your own program by getting good athletes. Im not against Phillips any school getting athletes but obviously they figured out what it takes to get kids in there and they are successful.

I dont agree with illegal recruiting by any school for any kid. But it happens all the time unfortunately some schools get away with it. While others get caught just the way it goes. Everyone complains until something like a prize athlete falls on their roster then they have nothing to say.

Id be more concerned with putting a good product on the field every Friday night and making sure my team is well prepared then I would be worried about where the next transfer is going too next.

Not my post but I agree with this 1000%

New flash.. 3A schools don't just go out and get athletes,doesn't work that way..

 

[BBCHS77]

Rochester can and does. But that's ok...

Give me the list of Rochester transfers... and of course the key difference is that the Phillips kids don't need to relocate, while the Rochester kids do..

 

[BBCHS77]

Just curious but does Rochester bring in that many transfers? Evanston TWP HS is in a town of nearly 75,000 why aren't they better? That's a fairly large base to pull from?

How about De La Salle? They pull from over a Million people why aren't they better?

DePaul Prep?

I can keep going down the list. If pulling from a large populous is the only reason why these schools are better, I can go all over the country to private schools with a large recruiting map that aren't perennial winners.

Stop being so dam bitter. Get better at the sport or pick up Badmitten

DLS and Evanston are awful examples as they are in the large school brackets.. if Phillips wants to draw from their huge area and play 7A, more power to them.. but they can attract top kids because they can sell winning a 3A title while playing with 8A population and talent.. and its for nothing but football, their academics are putrid.

 

[Cross Bones]

MC can. Probably have a few more on the roster.

 

[epicbret]

DLS and Evanston are awful examples as they are in the large school brackets.. if Phillips wants to draw from their huge area and play 7A, more power to them.. but they can attract top kids because they can sell winning a 3A title while playing with 8A population and talent.. and its for nothing but football, their academics are putrid.

I love when someone insults a school's academics with a gigantic run on created by two-thirds of an elipses as the mark.

 

[epicbret]

Not to be that guy, but it's just funny to me.

 

[flyerforlife]

New flash.. 3A schools don't just go out and get athletes,doesn't work that way..

Phillip is now a winning program 3A or whatever they will get kids to come in period. Again no need to worry about what kids other programs are getting. Make sure your team puts a good team on the field on Friday nights. All schools lose kids that's a fact. Why complain its going to happen.

 

[CPSFan]

Why are the kids leaving?

This is the biggest question in my opinion. I have seen kids transfer from CCL to CPS for decades now for a ton of reasons, with number one being some type of off the field conflict. Many were kicked out for grades or disciplinary reasons. I'm not saying that this is definitely the case here, but I personally know of at least 100+ kids who have fallen into this category.

While I can understand the frustration of losing players, to vent your frustration by claiming that CPS schools such as Phillips have an unfair advantage because they are in Chicago is ridiculous. If that were true then can you please explain why no other CPS football team has won a state football championship on any level ever. By that logic shouldn't small schools like Leo, Robeson, Hales, Brooks, and countless others be able to duplicate Phillips formula for success?

 

[caravan8]

MC has lost a lot the past few season. Can't fault kids for going someplace else. 95% of the kids in the state would jump at the chance like Griffith & Brown got at IMG. As for kids leaving for CPS schools, it is what it is.

I'm not sure what the reason for so many departures is. I think the offense has something to do with it. But I also think that in the particular case of MC, you have almost an entire staff of old school guys who were wildly successful in the past but maybe now are seeing that today's kids don't respond to a certain type of coaching or discipline. Just an outside guess, I have no real clue as to why either player left for Phillips.

I do think MC can have some success, however I think we are a couple steps behind LA in the CCL.

 

[BBCHS77]

Phillip is now a winning program 3A or whatever they will get kids to come in period. Again no need to worry about what kids other programs are getting. Make sure your team puts a good team on the field on Friday nights. All schools lose kids that's a fact. Why complain its going to happen.

I would agree IF all public schools could attract talent from that huge of a population base, but obviously that isn't the case.

 

[BBCHS77]

I love when someone insults a school's academics with a gigantic run on created by two-thirds of an elipses as the mark.

Well I.

Why are the kids leaving?

This is the biggest question in my opinion. I have seen kids transfer from CCL to CPS for decades now for a ton of reasons, with number one being some type of off the field conflict. Many were kicked out for grades or disciplinary reasons. I'm not saying that this is definitely the case here, but I personally know of at least 100+ kids who have fallen into this category.

While I can understand the frustration of losing players, to vent your frustration by claiming that CPS schools such as Phillips have an unfair advantage because they are in Chicago is ridiculous. If that were true then can you please explain why no other CPS football team has won a state football championship on any level ever. By that logic shouldn't small schools like Leo, Robeson, Hales, Brooks, and countless others be able to duplicate Phillips formula for success?

You will have to ask the rest of the CPS schools why they suck so bad, but that benefits the CCL and the couple of CPS schools that aren't inept.

 

[NNFAN]

As long as Troy McAllister is at Phillips, they will continue to win. Looks like a run of state titles around the corner. School spirit, pride, and a more positive attitude all due to the football success. If they can draw from a large population base (unlike most public schools) and not charge tuition (like private schools), they will continue to attract transfers.

Mt. Carmel will lose a few players due to the offensive style, a few more (elite players) to a school like IMG (that promises the world), and a few to a school like Phillips (successful local public- no tuition). Not much they can do. When Lenti retires... go get McAllister. I would still take the Carmel education any day if I was these kids.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ep-fb-phillips-mcallister-20151205-story.html

 

[cornerrat]

Give me the list of Rochester transfers... and of course the key difference is that the Phillips kids don't need to relocate, while the Rochester kids do..[/QUOTE

All.... Just for a start and I'm only talking football from the last couple of years. The Cox twins, the kid ( a good receiver) from Mt. Zion. I'm missing one or two others from the near past. The Rockets have a new one this year from Chatham, a stud who will start on defense. Could be more. Go figure....You public school complainers always bring that example up about moving. There are lots of families in the Springfield and surrounding area that can (and do) easily afford to move for the sake of athletics into another school district. Time to come up with another example HHS.... Ratsy

 

[BBCHS77]

So in their ten year run you can come up with 3 families that have transferred in??? And one because the dad relocated into that area??? That's a FAR cry from Phillips and what's going on there.. Not to mention the Cox family and now this unconfirmed kid from Chatham had to move their family, these Phillips kids do not.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

So in their ten year run you can come up with 3 families that have transferred in??? And one because the dad relocated into that area??? That's a FAR cry from Phillips and what's going on there.. Not to mention the Cox family and now this unconfirmed kid from Chatham had to move their family, these Phillips kids do not.

You know if takes a special Lind of person to be critical of kids because of where they live and the situation they grew up in.

Where do you get the stones to be the holier than thou?

And don't come back with the weak argument of just calling it like you see it.

Until you walk a mile in a mans shoes you can't speak for that man.

There's a special spot in a dark place for your kind.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

If a kid moves from MC to Phillips HS - the St Ignatius of the public league - so be it. It seems the with ability to have kids playing w/o sitting a year is a huge plus for Phillips. What the IHSA’s binders don’t want to see is the suburban kids playing with Chicago addresses. We all remember when ESL got caught with multiple players living out of district and out of state. But the IHSA only ruled on the head coach’s nephew who went to court to remove his court ordered monitoring bracelet from his ankle so he could play. His address was part of the court record.

The CPS is also desperate for something positive and also is turning a blind eye. Was it two years ago all but two of the players on Curie’s baseball team were academical ineligible and they had to forfeit all their games? Derrick Rose’s and Ben Wilson’s grades? Simeon was the flavor of the month for a long while now it’s Phillips.

MC’s 1940 offense is a part of kids moving but their academic standards and discipline have to be taken account along with the cost of tuition . Hey if I’m a 16 year old kid I’m taking the path of least resistance. Plus if I can start at Phillips as a sophomore and not have wait till my senior year it’s a no brainier.

 

[BBCHS77]

You know if takes a special Lind of person to be critical of kids because of where they live and the situation they grew up in.

Where do you get the stones to be the holier than thou?

And don't come back with the weak argument of just calling it like you see it.

Until you walk a mile in a mans shoes you can't speak for that man.

There's a special spot in a dark place for your kind.

What in the name of Christ are you talking about? Nowhere in there did I say ANYTHING close to being critical of a kid based on where they live, other than its crap that they can attend any city school they want and still be allowed to be in 3A.

 

[McCaravan]

To start, Billingsley didn't transfer, he was dismissed for a number of reasons I won't discuss. If IMG didn't come after Griffith and Brown they would still be at MC. To answer the question, yes they will still compete. They have dynamic QB in Alec Thomas, a D-1 linemen in Jeremy Cooper (Cincinnati) a returning RB in Nakos (10 TDs last season) and 8 starters back on defense.

People have been transferring out of MC for many years...Charles Frazier, Pierre Thomas, Reginald Cribbs, Lendell Buckner, Leon Hill, Mike Griffin, and many, many others...there are a wide variety of reasons...some is playing time...many is due to the discipline and structure...many of these kids are attending a Catholic School for the first time, where attendance is required, where a C average is required to play, where actions have consequences and they don't like it, so they go to public school. MC will kick you out if you aren't living up to the code of conduct. Tuition plays a huge role. When you recruit heavily out of areas where kids are experiencing Catholic school education for the first time, you understand that some kids are going to not stay 4 years, and you have a plan B or C in place.

As far as the offense, I don't buy it. People may be not going to MC because of the offense, but I don't think they are leaving, they don't hide what offense they run. This offense works. They won 12 titles, as recently as back to back in 2012 and 2013, and semi finals in 2014, they scored at will last season, they just couldn't stop anyone and that needs to be their major adjustment in 2017 and beyond.

 

[LHSTigers94]

To start, Billingsley didn't transfer, he was dismissed for a number of reasons I won't discuss. If IMG didn't come after Griffith and Brown they would still be at MC. To answer the question, yes they will still compete. They have dynamic QB in Alec Thomas, a D-1 linemen in Jeremy Cooper (Cincinnati) a returning RB in Nakos (10 TDs last season) and 8 starters back on defense.

People have been transferring out of MC for many years...Charles Frazier, Pierre Thomas, Reginald Cribbs, Lendell Buckner, Leon Hill, Mike Griffin, and many, many others...there are a wide variety of reasons...some is playing time...many is due to the discipline and structure...many of these kids are attending a Catholic School for the first time, where attendance is required, where a C average is required to play, where actions have consequences and they don't like it, so they go to public school. MC will kick you out if you aren't living up to the code of conduct. Tuition plays a huge role. When you recruit heavily out of areas where kids are experiencing Catholic school education for the first time, you understand that some kids are going to not stay 4 years, and you have a plan B or C in place.

As far as the offense, I don't buy it. People may be not going to MC because of the offense, but I don't think they are leaving, they don't hide what offense they run. This offense works. They won 12 titles, as recently as back to back in 2012 and 2013, and semi finals in 2014, they scored at will last season, they just couldn't stop anyone and that needs to be their major adjustment in 2017 and beyond.

Wasn't the score 17-6 against PC for a playoff spot?

 

[LHSTigers94]

If a kid moves from MC to Phillips HS - the St Ignatius of the public league - so be it. It seems the with ability to have kids playing w/o sitting a year is a huge plus for Phillips. What the IHSA’s binders don’t want to see is the suburban kids playing with Chicago addresses. We all remember when ESL got caught with multiple players living out of district and out of state. But the IHSA only ruled on the head coach’s nephew who went to court to remove his court ordered monitoring bracelet from his ankle so he could play. His address was part of the court record.

The CPS is also desperate for something positive and also is turning a blind eye. Was it two years ago all but two of the players on Curie’s baseball team were academical ineligible and they had to forfeit all their games? Derrick Rose’s and Ben Wilson’s grades? Simeon was the flavor of the month for a long while now it’s Phillips.

MC’s 1940 offense is a part of kids moving but their academic standards and discipline have to be taken account along with the cost of tuition . Hey if I’m a 16 year old kid I’m taking the path of least resistance. Plus if I can start at Phillips as a sophomore and not have wait till my senior year it’s a no brainier.

Correction, ESL was accused of multiple players however only one, as you mentioned, was proven. Also that one had been going to ESL schools since his 8th grade year. He wasn't a transfer which make it totally different. More people want the IHSA to enforce punishment based on conversation and not proof. In my experience, once it is proven, actions WILL follow. As far as the CPS, it was basketball in which the CPS blew their own whistle (curie), not IHSA.

Everyone can speculate however only 1% or less actually have facts.

 

[McCaravan]

Wasn't the score 17-6 against PC for a playoff spot?

That is was, the only week, I believe, they didn't score at least 23 points, including the 4 Prep Bowl playoff games. Bad week to not have offense.

 

[cornerrat]

So in their ten year run you can come up with 3 families that have transferred in??? And one because the dad relocated into that area??? That's a FAR cry from Phillips and what's going on there.. Not to mention the Cox family and now this unconfirmed kid from Chatham had to move their family, these Phillips kids do not.

All.... Oh the kid that moved from Chatham to Rochester is there. I find it amusing how you try to explain away why these athletes end up in Rochester. Bottom line they are moving to Rochester. Ratsy

 

[jwarigaku]

Sorry McCaravan but if you can score at will you can also win at will, that has not been reflected in the last 3 years where they are 3-9 in the CCL Blue. Scoring at will against Taft doesn't count.

That is was, the only week, I believe, they didn't score at least 23 points, including the 4 Prep Bowl playoff games. Bad week to not have offense.

 

[LHSTigers94]

That is was, the only week, I believe, they didn't score at least 23 points, including the 4 Prep Bowl playoff games. Bad week to not have offense.

Okay so that was a bad week. I was kind of shocked at the results of that game. Wasn't sure what happened.

 

[McCaravan]

Sorry McCaravan but if you can score at will you can also win at will, that has not been reflected in the last 3 years where they are 3-9 in the CCL Blue. Scoring at will against Taft doesn't count.

42 Vs. Rice, 28 Vs. LA and Rita, 23 vs. Montini, ALL loses, scoring that many points in each of those games should have been 3-1, very least 2-2, they went 0-4. Very uncharacteristic defensive play for MC the past 2 years.

 

[BBCHS77]

All.... Oh the kid that moved from Chatham to Rochester is there. I find it amusing how you try to explain away why these athletes end up in Rochester. Bottom line they are moving to Rochester. Ratsy

So in the 10 year period of Rochester dominance you are up to 4 kids at Rochester.. From what I have heard, Phillips will have close to 10 this year alone. You trying to equate the two is completely desparate on your behalf

 

[caravan8]

McCaravan - agreed that kids have been leaving forever, some by choice and some not. And if I recall correctly Frazier was asked to leave after '95 season but that's a story for another time. We have benefited from transfers before with Octavius Bond who was an excellent WR.

While I too believe that they have been scoring well enough to win some games, the defense the past couple of years has struggled with stopping the spread passing offenses.

If Thomas makes the USA U18 Baseball Team will he miss some time in August and possibly September for games?