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Bottom tier teams and coaching expectations

Wilmatucky

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Nov 1, 2017
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Wilmington
I recently saw an article with a spotlight on Reed-Custer’s new coach and a little background on him. I didn’t realize RC was so bad. Since 2010 season they have only won 12 games and have not made the playoffs. Since 2000 they have only made the playoffs four times.

Now I have known a few of their coaches and families of players, so no ill-will in this post. However, my question is this. What type of expectations does a new coach have when they take over a team with such a lackluster history? How many years does the coach get to turn it around? Playing in the I-8 is not going to help their cause at all. They have a very tough road ahead and I only see a two win season max.

I’m sure there is a team or two in every conference so use your conference as a base to think of how this is handled by the school. Do some schools simply not care how their football team performs? Have I been spoiled by watching Wilmington for the better part of my fan tenure? What are the expectations for a team in similar situation?
 
Stagg's recent history fits the description.
16 wins since 2010 (two years of 0-9, one 1-8)
On their 4th coach in 8 years (I'm sure the losing takes it's toll)
3 playoff appearances since 1992 (only 6 in School history)

I think the school's strugles arise from
1. Being in a conference where they don't competitively belong for Football the last 10 years SWSC
2. Lack of success perpetuates kids going to Parochial schools in area or the Palos South Kids that can enroll at Stagg or Sandburg to choose Sandburg.
3. The changing dynamic of Palos HIlls and Hickory Hills. 30 years ago those two towns were destinations for blue collar families. Those Adults that graduated from Stagg 15-20 years ago now are not returning to the area are now buying houses in LP, New Lenox, OP, etc.
4. There is a large population of first generation Americans moving into those towns that do not value HS athletics.

Do some schools simply not care how their football team performs? I would have a hard time saying any school "does not care." What more can a school do if the players are not coming in? Cheat, recruit? You have to coach what walks through the doors.

What are the expectations for a team in similar situation? Regardless of W-L, a positive experience should be the expectation. There are extreme values to learn when things don't go your way losing (teamwork, adversity, fun, competition).
 
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And that is RC's glory days of football...they only made the playoffs twice before 2000...86 & 99...

Sometimes a school just doesn't know what they want. In the mid-90's, RC hired a young head coach with the expectations and hopes that he could build the program. He was there two years. The second year, he had an incredibly talented sophomore class which made up most of the varsity. They went 3-6. He got fired, and RC went out and sold Dean Cappel on the job. Cappel had been incredibly successful at Clifton Central, Herscher, and other places and they figured he could take that incredibly talented soph class and go somewhere. His first two years were 5-4, missed playoffs, and 6-4, 1st round out. Sure, he took the Comets to four more playoff trips, but I'm not sure that was what they wanted the first two years...I'm sure the young first time head coach that went 3-6 with the sophs could have gone 6-4 as seniors...

Part of the answer to the RC question is what do the parents want, what does the community want, and what do the kids want? Communities which do not support football are going to have mediocre teams...The Junior Comets program is a mess, so the kids aren't as ready as their neighbors as freshmen. I don't think they have had a coach analyze their student's desires very well...the class which won the baseball title and consecutive hoops regionals played football as sophs with the coach who ran the spread, and all the studs quit when the new coach came in with a ground 'n pound system...Last fall's sophs at RC impressed me by coming back in the second half against Wilmo for a one point game...And now they have a new coach...[/QUOTE]
 
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I was a senior when Reents coached his first season.
Wilmington didn’t have much history of football success prior to that. Returning virtually nobody from an 0-9 season, we somehow managed to scrape out 3 wins. Following year they went 5-4. Year after that they ran the table until a close and controversial loss in the quarterfinals at Marengo. Haven’t missed the playoffs since, and have been considered a top tier small school program for quite a while.
Wilmington in 1994 was in the exact spot R-C is in now. The administration needs to give the young staff some time. It’s up to the staff to get kids out of the hallways and onto the field. It will take a bit of luck (Wilmo’s class of ‘97 was stacked including future NFL player Damien Anderson), but one magical season could spark enough community interest and get the program going. It’s unlikely, but possible. It will certainly take some time.
 
Stagg's recent history fits the description.
16 wins since 2010 (two years of 0-9, one 1-8)
On their 4th coach in 8 years (I'm sure the losing takes it's toll)
3 playoff appearances since 1992 (only 6 in School history)

I think the school's strugles arise from
1. Being in a conference where they don't competitively belong for Football the last 10 years SWSC
2. Lack of success perpetuates kids going to Parochial schools in area or the Palos South Kids that can enroll at Stagg or Sandburg to choose Sandburg.
3. The changing dynamic of Palos HIlls and Hickory Hills. 30 years ago those two towns were destinations for blue collar families. Those Adults that graduated from Stagg 15-20 years ago now are not returning to the area are now buying houses in LP, New Lenox, OP, etc.
4. There is a large population of first generation Americans moving into those towns that do not value HS athletics.
These factors you mention are certainly among the most important. Realize, however, that the D230 teaching salary policy DOES NOT allow for applying all previous years of experience for incoming staff. That can make it difficult to bring in an established, successful coach from the outside to blow-up the program and turn it around.
 
I was a senior when Reents coached his first season.
Wilmington didn’t have much history of football success prior to that. Returning virtually nobody from an 0-9 season, we somehow managed to scrape out 3 wins. Following year they went 5-4. Year after that they ran the table until a close and controversial loss in the quarterfinals at Marengo. Haven’t missed the playoffs since, and have been considered a top tier small school program for quite a while.
Wilmington in 1994 was in the exact spot R-C is in now. The administration needs to give the young staff some time. It’s up to the staff to get kids out of the hallways and onto the field. It will take a bit of luck (Wilmo’s class of ‘97 was stacked including future NFL player Damien Anderson), but one magical season could spark enough community interest and get the program going. It’s unlikely, but possible. It will certainly take some time.

Bringing Wilkins back after Damien helped a ton too. Having 2 running backs go D-1 in back to back years creates a buzz. I also think that keeping the Varsity coaching staff in tact for 20+ years is huge.
 
What expectations should a coach at Joliet Central have? Since 2010 only two wins, while Joliet West has been making playoffs.
 
Look at your own school, Wilmington...go back to 2015...football won the '14 championship, basketball coach resigns after back to back 2 win seasons(only varsity coach for those 2 seasons). The Cats only had 2 winning seasons in basketball since Reents became football coach in '94, 6 double digit win seasons, hadn't won a regional since the 80's. What would your expectations of a new hoops coach be? Basketball is at best the 4th sport at Wilmo, after Football, Wrestling & Baseball...Since I had a kid who was a sophomore at that point, I know what they got and what they should have wanted...

The departing coach utterly failed in implementing an offensive system (and he had been the soph coach prior, so he had been the kids coach for 3-4 years). The offense fell apart after the first pass...I applauded if the Cats got three passes into a play before either having to reset or going one-on-one...The most effective play became what I call split the pig, or split the post, which basically is a pass to someone on the free-throw line and the guards scissors cut off of him...Southall, the state championship QB, was the player on the FT line who ran the base football play for the guards - yes, the scissors cut handoff (admittedly, he was darn good at that handoff...lol). They let Southall & Zlomie, the football studs, start despite not having played hoops as a Fr-So-Jr in high school...It truly was uglier than their 2-24 record...

The Cats promote their freshman coach, who had been there one year, previously an assistant in Manteno. What did they need? To look like Wilmo cared about basketball. The moving up sophs were a much better basketball team than the outgoing seniors, probably 3 of them should have started varsity as sophs. They actually ran plays, could reverse the ball without the offense collapsing, had winning records in 7th & 8th grades. The school needed for them to look like they had a coach and could run a play. They didn't have to win, just look like a team that didn't play pickup/street ball. And they did...After their first summer tournament, they were playing better team basketball than the varsity had in probably 5 years. The first season they only won 7 games, 3 of the wins coming in winning the dreadful Donovan Christmas tournament. But they won the first hoops hardware in years, looked like they were being coached, and were generally competitive.
 
Look at your own school, Wilmington...go back to 2015...football won the '14 championship, basketball coach resigns after back to back 2 win seasons(only varsity coach for those 2 seasons). The Cats only had 2 winning seasons in basketball since Reents became football coach in '94, 6 double digit win seasons, hadn't won a regional since the 80's. What would your expectations of a new hoops coach be? Basketball is at best the 4th sport at Wilmo, after Football, Wrestling & Baseball...Since I had a kid who was a sophomore at that point, I know what they got and what they should have wanted...

The departing coach utterly failed in implementing an offensive system (and he had been the soph coach prior, so he had been the kids coach for 3-4 years). The offense fell apart after the first pass...I applauded if the Cats got three passes into a play before either having to reset or going one-on-one...The most effective play became what I call split the pig, or split the post, which basically is a pass to someone on the free-throw line and the guards scissors cut off of him...Southall, the state championship QB, was the player on the FT line who ran the base football play for the guards - yes, the scissors cut handoff (admittedly, he was darn good at that handoff...lol). They let Southall & Zlomie, the football studs, start despite not having played hoops as a Fr-So-Jr in high school...It truly was uglier than their 2-24 record...

The Cats promote their freshman coach, who had been there one year, previously an assistant in Manteno. What did they need? To look like Wilmo cared about basketball. The moving up sophs were a much better basketball team than the outgoing seniors, probably 3 of them should have started varsity as sophs. They actually ran plays, could reverse the ball without the offense collapsing, had winning records in 7th & 8th grades. The school needed for them to look like they had a coach and could run a play. They didn't have to win, just look like a team that didn't play pickup/street ball. And they did...After their first summer tournament, they were playing better team basketball than the varsity had in probably 5 years. The first season they only won 7 games, 3 of the wins coming in winning the dreadful Donovan Christmas tournament. But they won the first hoops hardware in years, looked like they were being coached, and were generally competitive.

I guess the point of my post would be better worded as “how long do you give a coach to turn it around”.

I agree that Wilmo basketball is awful but it is slightly different than football. You have a 9 game season that requires a winning record to make the playoffs as opposed to a 30 game season that allows everyone in postseason play. 10-20 w-l record is a huge
Accomplishment for Wilmo hoops. That coach would be thought of as a savior to the program.

So how long does a football coach get? I’m going to offer my .02 cents and say 4 years. That gives you a full four year class cycle.
 
I recently joined and posted a thread on "Dark Horse" Teams. My opinion is there are three factors that go into resurrecting a program with a new coach. 1st - How talented is that Coach. This relates to his system, process and off season training. It also includes that coaches ability to make his players believe. 2nd - Talent - what does that coach have to work with and what is the future pipeline? No talent equates to limited wins. 3rd - Culture! Can a team believe it can win against a team that always beats them? Culture could be the biggest component. Crystal Lake South has a 2nd year head coach. He has the talent (and the largest OLine to ever walk the planet), the coaching is good, but can they turn two 3-6 years into a 6-3 year? Playing in the FVC is very difficult. But ultimately, these kids need to believe they can beat the likes of PR, Cary and Huntley. This aspect takes time.
 
Maine East is possibly one of the worst football programs in the history of the state. The school is over 100 years old. Has one, that's right 1 playoff appearance since the ihsa state championship started. Coach Al Eck posted a 9-0 record in 1977, and that was it for the school. Since then they have had multiple losing streaks of over 30 games. If and when they have a two win season, it is a tremendous accomplishment.

More to the point of this thread... Maine East has not had a winning season, much less a winning coach since Eck left in 1978. Yet the coaches are allowed to stay. One coach (name withheld) coached 9 consecutive losing seasons, stepped down, then was re-hired for 6 more (losing) seasons several years later. So, this school seems to have infinite patience with their coaches to turn the program around.

All of this at a school in the same town, and literally a couple of miles from Maine South. I would really love to hear what people think the reason is for one team to consistently be among the best in the state, the other among the worst (aside from the obvious i.e. Inserra) when they draw from, theoretically, a similar pool of kids.

In spite of all of this, I sense a little excitement at the school with the recent hire of a young energetic coach who played at NIU, and is really working to bring in more athletes to the team. Would love to see the school experience a little success.
 
Maine East is possibly one of the worst football programs in the history of the state. The school is over 100 years old. Has one, that's right 1 playoff appearance since the ihsa state championship started. Coach Al Eck posted a 9-0 record in 1977, and that was it for the school. Since then they have had multiple losing streaks of over 30 games. If and when they have a two win season, it is a tremendous accomplishment.

More to the point of this thread... Maine East has not had a winning season, much less a winning coach since Eck left in 1978. Yet the coaches are allowed to stay. One coach (name withheld) coached 9 consecutive losing seasons, stepped down, then was re-hired for 6 more (losing) seasons several years later. So, this school seems to have infinite patience with their coaches to turn the program around.

All of this at a school in the same town, and literally a couple of miles from Maine South. I would really love to hear what people think the reason is for one team to consistently be among the best in the state, the other among the worst (aside from the obvious i.e. Inserra) when they draw from, theoretically, a similar pool of kids.

In spite of all of this, I sense a little excitement at the school with the recent hire of a young energetic coach who played at NIU, and is really working to bring in more athletes to the team. Would love to see the school experience a little success.

Maine East still has it's only Blue Ribbon School Award banner hanging in the gym from 1984! I guess they're struggling off the field too!
 
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Maine East is possibly one of the worst football programs in the history of the state. The school is over 100 years old. Has one, that's right 1 playoff appearance since the ihsa state championship started. Coach Al Eck posted a 9-0 record in 1977, and that was it for the school. Since then they have had multiple losing streaks of over 30 games. If and when they have a two win season, it is a tremendous accomplishment.

More to the point of this thread... Maine East has not had a winning season, much less a winning coach since Eck left in 1978. Yet the coaches are allowed to stay. One coach (name withheld) coached 9 consecutive losing seasons, stepped down, then was re-hired for 6 more (losing) seasons several years later. So, this school seems to have infinite patience with their coaches to turn the program around.

All of this at a school in the same town, and literally a couple of miles from Maine South. I would really love to hear what people think the reason is for one team to consistently be among the best in the state, the other among the worst (aside from the obvious i.e. Inserra) when they draw from, theoretically, a similar pool of kids.

In spite of all of this, I sense a little excitement at the school with the recent hire of a young energetic coach who played at NIU, and is really working to bring in more athletes to the team. Would love to see the school experience a little success.
You’ve never heard of Argo or Morton(Morton East was beyond horrible give or take a few years)
 
Heck, you want to talk about programs that just haven't had the success of the others that make it to state year-in and year-out, consider the following schools:

Aurora East is 504-559-58 in its' school history (1893-2017), but is 44-262 starting from 1984 through 2017 with only one winning season (5-4 in 2000) in that period;

Berwyn-Cicero Morton has compiled an overall record of 177-597-20 from 1921-2017. In its history, Morton has never qualified for the playoffs, and their last winning record was 6-3 in 1985 when the two schools brought their programs back together. That six-win mark is the most in a single season for the school, whether they were known as Morton or Morton East.

Joliet Central is 319-485-33 from 1925-2017, and broke a 71-game losing streak in 2016. Since 1994 when the JT co-op was 8-3, their record is 27-176, including 10 seasons of 0-9;

Kewanee is 455-585-30 from 1897-2017, and broke a 21-game losing streak in 2016. Even though they have been 39-100 since 2003, they have had four playoff appearances in the past seven seasons (all first-round exits);

Peoria Manual is 503-449-44 from 1911-2017, and has only qualified for the playoffs once since 1999 (6-4 in 2010). Since 2000, the Rams are 30-112 with four 0-9 seasons;

Plainfield Central is 318-389-19 from 1924-2017. Since the school was renamed Plainfield Central in 2003, the Wildcats have gone 46-96 but did qualify for the playoffs twice, and broke a 39-game losing streak last season;

Summit Argo is 260-452-24 from 1927-2017, and has only recorded seven winning seasons since 1968. In fact, they did not have a winning season for 30 years in that period; and,

Waukegan (both as Waukegan HS and Waukegan East before they went back to one HS in 1990) is 298-464-24 from 1925-2017. Since the district went back to one high school, they have had just eight winning seasons and three playoff appearances that lasted one round each, and an overall record of 87-169.

By the way, this is not a dig at any of these schools....it is purely fact.
 
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St.Anne before dropping football was not very good at all.Had a few decent years.85 Morton deserved to get in the playoffs.They had Amundsen I think cancelled on them to play another CPS school so Morton had to go to Kenosha or Racine to have a 9th game & lost.Otherwise 7 wins they would have made it.Morton East only had a few decent years as did West.West did make the playoffs in 83.Great game beat Gordon Tech in round 1.0-0 going into Overtime.GT scored & kicked the extra.West scored & faked the extra,hit a perfect pass & pulled the stunner.Argo kept the same Coach simply because nobody else would go there.They had some good teams get in the playoffs but many teams that should have gotten in but didn't for reasons I won't discuss.Joliet Central,I remember that great 76 team that got in the playoffs & had they not lost 3 starters to injury after the Marian Catholic game they would have beat Lake Park setting up a rematch with Joliet Catholic in round 2.86 & 89 were playoff caliber teams but missed out barely those years.
 
Plainfield & Manual had many good teams before the playoffs expanded.Aurora East & West have struggled big time in football.
 
Plainfield & Manual had many good teams before the playoffs expanded.Aurora East & West have struggled big time in football.
West has had a resurgence recently. They had Maine South on the ropes two years ago when the hawks won state. Pretty sure they had scored when they called a fumble on the goalline as they went in to score.
 
Westmont has made the playoffs only twice in school history, and has only had two other 5 win seasons - for a total of 4 winning seasons in school history. They have, however, two cross-country runner up trophies, a 3rd place baseball trophy and a 4th place basketball trophy...The Sentinels were a poor fit from the start for the I-8 because of their lack of geographic rivalry with anyone but Lisle and a strong preference for cross-country over football...
The Otto Zeman experiment just didn't work because, despite his prior success, he couldn't instill the toughness that dominates the I-8 (a conference that at one point was dominated by the power run)...

Manteno shows what happens when you make good hires...Their first coach was Jake Zajc, who was varsity coach for three years (the last the painful 4-5 week 9 loss to RC) and also the baseball coach, winning the first regional in Panther baseball history. Jake left for the rapidly growing, and much better paying, Lincoln Ways...But the 3-6 first season showed the grit the program could have, beating a playoff bound Peotone in the initial Route 50 Rumble for the first win in school history.

He was replaced by Elliott Craig for one season...not only did he go 1-8, but he pissed off the entire system by calling the soccer team "lawn fairies"...Perfect example of a bad choice...

The Panthers had a number of good assistants thru the early years as well...Mike Kohl, Bradley-Bourbonnais head coach, was an assistant for a few years. Several others left for the Lincoln Ways...

But then they found their move-up coach. RJ Haines had won the '03 2A title at Iroquois West, and saw the opportunity to build a bigger program basically from scratch. He brought the spread. He taught the youth league coaches the basics of the spread. He went 4-5, 3-6, 3-6, 3-6 the first four years and in his fifth year the Panthers made the playoffs for the first time at 5-5 with the kids who completely came thru his system. Year 6, 8-1 regular season gave them the No. 1 seed in the 4A south...which basically meant being fed to Wes Lunt and the Rockets in the second round. In '14, they started 8-0 and hosted the undefeated Wildcats for the overall I-8 title...'15 same 8-0 start, Wilmo title game...Now on 8 straight playoff appearances...You know what you are getting when you play Manteno...
 
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