BMac leaving CCL in 2018
- Thread starter Wolvrne7
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I question because I like it, I guess my next question is how do you handle initial rankings because clearly a school like St Joe's is far inferior to say a Providence despite the better record.
Enrollment, participation numbers, and win/loss record. win/loss counts for 50%, enrollment 25% participation 25%
Then you change divisions yearly based on W/L and re rank 1-14 or you keep divisions the same and re rank inside the division to decide crossovers?
Glenbard south out after next school year, I would expect a couple more ccl teams and escc schools to leave in the next three years. Jca considered leaving this year as well. Metro will be a little closer to the old Scc.... I would rather put the the whole band back together..Marmion and montini. I understand there is more to every conference alignment, happy not to be an AD.
ESCC? JCA?? Interesting, I'm sure they all want to hop into that powerhouse metro!
CCL + remains of the DVC + divisions worked out with best possible geographics in mind = making lemonade out of lemons?
The Metro Suburban Conference is the weakest conference in football in the State. On the one side of the conference you have Ridgewood,Aurora Central,Elmwood Park,Guerin, Walther Lutheran and Chicago Christian. RIdgewood has made playoffs 2 years in a row because of the weak schedule. They were blown out in the first rounds the last 2 years. Good to see that there will finally be some decent football schools in that conference.
He's got a new handle I think. Not 100percent sure though. If I'm right he was on the LZ thread a bunch a few weeks back.
Late to the party been out of town. Marmion is staying in CCL my source was wrong...it was Marmion's sister school Rosary (all female school) that is joining
So 14 schools in CCL. Bet its 5-5-4 just appease Fenwick and De La Salle. Anyone also hearing many of the Metro teams unhappy with IC? Cant see them leaving for CCL though.
Blue: Mt. Carmel, Rita, Bro Rice, Providence, Loyola
White: Montini, Marmion, Fenwick, De La Salle, St. Laurence
Red; Leo, DePaul, St. Joe, St. Ignatius
I could see someone like Chicago Hope Academy joining the Red if they were not forced to play crossovers.
Blue: Mt. Carmel, Rita, Bro Rice, Providence, Loyola
White: Montini, Marmion, Fenwick, De La Salle, St. Laurence
Red; Leo, DePaul, St. Joe, St. Ignatius
I could see someone like Chicago Hope Academy joining the Red if they were not forced to play crossovers.
Hope Academy is already in the Red, approved a few months ago... Not sure if you could appease everyone, the Blue wants to be broken up. There is great parity in the CCL Green and White, of those schools will suffer moving into the blue. St. Laurence has reaped the benefits of playing a White Schedule, so has St. Ignatius. Montini should go up simply by the success and football numbers.
When i was at MC, it went North and South with adjustments every 2 years. '90 season MC was in the CCL North with LA. Played SR in a crossover week 3 or 4. They did not play LA at all in '91 or '92 then played there in '93. In '88 MC didn't even play Rita at all until 6A semis when both were 12-0.
I don't understand the crossover issue. Two games out of a nine game schedule - even if you lose both, you still have 7 games to get to 5 wins.
That being said, go two divisions and break up the blue. Re- align every two years. I'm not sure there is a better option out there.
That being said, go two divisions and break up the blue. Re- align every two years. I'm not sure there is a better option out there.
Vikes, if you don't understand the crossover issue, you are either ignorant or simply don't care to understand the crossover issue. You seem like a smart guy so I'll say the later.
The CCL is a mess. I've only been paying attention to the CCL since the 4 SCC schools joined a few years ago, but it's a mess. A system in which 3A schools play 5-6A schools is ridiculous, not to mention the 7-8A school matchups which is futile and just plain stupid. It is a broken system that needs to be blown up and start all over again with similarly sized schools playing each other.
Right what does Leo playing Loyola, DePaul playing Mt. Carmel and St. Joe playing Rice do for either team? Gives the Blue a win but cannot play lower levels that week and forces the coaches to be careful not to run it up....for the little guys it can ruin their entire season injury and demoralizing.
The CCL is a mess because its the big boys and the really small boys. And the middle too. Causes way too much angst, too much disagreement, too much disparity. In a perfect world you would have 2 - 8 team divisions with similiar size schools but it is not possible. I wonder why the administrations at the schools like Leo, DePaul, Joes etc. just do not bolt from a football perspective.
I've even thought that Leo and DPP should join a CPS division provided it was a division with charters, selective enrollments and military academies.
Bring in the remains of the DVC to take over those dreaded crossover games and replace them with two non con games and wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the angst? Win, Win Win all the way around?
I didn't phrase it well. I understand all the terrible aspects of the crossovers. However, I was prt of them in the CCL as both a player and coach. It just didn't bother me. The lowest division against the Blue is awful. Middle teams against the Blue is not always awful and full of injury. That's all I was saying.
Vikes - what is your opinion of this combined CCL - ESCC setup...
Catholic League 56
6A, 1709 - New Lenox (Providence Catholic)
6A, 1597 - Burbank (St. Laurence)
6A, 1533 - Chicago (De La Salle)
6A, 1437 - Arlington Heights (St. Viator)
6A, 1387 - Chicago (St. Ignatius)
6A, 1257 - Woodstock (Marian)
6A, 1085 - Lombard (Montini)
5A, 1133 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5A, 1114 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
5A, 1039 - Chicago Heights (Marian)
Catholic League 78
8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)
Your enrollments aren't correct, some are multiplied some are not.
True enrollments: (with boys schools doubled)
Loyola 2133
Marist 1650
Notre Dame 1630
Br Rice 1598
St Ignatius 1387
Benet 1329
Carmel 1318
Mt Carmel 1310
St Pats 1306
St Rita 1208
Fenwick 1178
Marmion 1056
Marian Catholic 1039
Providence 1036
St Laurence 968 (actually goes down with QoP girls)
De La Salle 929
St Viator 871
Nazareth 762
Marian Central 687
Joliet Catholic 675
Montini 658
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Basically just Marian Catholic that isn't, right? Given the low bar to be multiplied, if a school isnt meeting that, I'm okay with letting them play down, so to speak.
St. Ignatius actual enrollment is 1387 so multiplied they would probably be an 8A team. They haven't won a playoff game in 85 years or so which is why they aren't multiplied for the playoffs. Similar to win Leo made a run a few years ago in 1A I believe.
Correct Ignatius and Marian are not 5a/6a schools though. What happens if fortunes change and those schools start winning playoff games? Do they go up? What about if a big school doesn't win a playoff game for awhile like maybe a St Pats? Do they go down when they are not multiplied? Better to just put those two where they belong based on true enrollment.
The idea is to take the CCL (minus remaining Red Division teams) and ESCC schools and put them into 2 buckets that make sense. My list is based on IHSA enrollment (whether multiplied or not).
This list of 7/8 and 5/6 schools seems to create the most parity.
This list of 7/8 and 5/6 schools seems to create the most parity.
Well IHSA enrollment changes every year. You simply eliminated 3 schools because you don't like them and a division of 11 as well as 21 schools overall leads you with a school looking for a non con every week. Hardly ideal.
That's also taking out the element that ESCC has no reason to bail out the CCL. ESCC seems rather content with their setup.
Fun to talk about but still too many holes.
I believe that if you do not win a playoff game for a 6 year period, you are not subject to the multiplier, so you are placed in the class that fits your true football enrollment. Once you win a playoff game, you become subject to the multiplier again I believe. Maybe Edgy or one of the other board members can clarify.
You're 100% correct, I was asking relative to the hypothetical conference. Thanks though just further reiterates a potential hole in this plan.
you have the all-boys schools doubled by the way, split them in half for the real enrollment
All boys schools are doubled for a reason. But that brings up a point... StL will actually be less next year.
TPF - you are unnecessarily complicating things. I pulled the enrollments directly from the IHSA website. My argument is centered around IHSA enrollments, not actual enrollments.
There's no "complication" St Ignatius has 1387 students, Marmion has 1056 (doubled because only boys). If Ignatius wins a playoff game their enrollment on IHSA website will become 2,289, I see you want to ignore that fact but it makes little sense. So in one year Ignatius can go from 1,387 to 2,289 in "IHSA enrollment" and Marian Catholic from 1,039 to 1,714 yet you don't account for this. Things change every year, drastic changes like this need to be accounted for.
Dude...
I did not ignore anything. I am simply dealing in the present time. This was my proposal as a starting point. I offered 5/6A and 7/8A IHSA enrollments as they are today. If you like, please propose a solution for schools that may at some time in the future become multiplied.
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