Thoughts on conference expansions etc

[EdgyTim]

Was thinking about this today and especially when it comes to a few specific conferences.

Especially the Southwest Prairie.

They have 10 teams now with the addition of two Joliet's along with Minooka, Plain East/South/North/Central and Romeoville/Oswego and Oswego East.

My guess is they are looking for say two schools to add 2 divisions of 6. Most logical schools to add?

I say Morris and Yorkville.

Geographically it makes sense. Morris would again be one of the smallest schools here but it allows them better travel and allows Morris it's rivalrys again with Minooka and the Plainfields.

Yorkville? Again it still make sense geographically. No question this would be a big jump up in all sports but.....why not?

have any other thoughts/suggestions on any specific conferences?

Post them here

 

[ramblinman]

No thoughts on any specific conferences. Rather, I have thoughts about conferences in general.

It's mystifying how so many schools seem to want to preserve and manipulate a system of conferences that is so obviously flawed and susceptible to hopping/shopping for the optimal situation which is so highly sought after but rarely achieved.

I'm glad that the CCL Blue is a competitive division, and I enjoy the rivalries, but if Loyola could be in a local district with the likes of NT, MS, Evanston, GBS, Notre Dame, etc., I would take that in a heartbeat over the CCL Blue and never look back.

The district proposal got shot down primarily because of the travel involved. However, from a travel perspective, districts would be more palatable in Illinois if we didn't have to arrange them according to eight enrollment based classes. If Illinois were to divide six classes into districts, we wouldn't see some of the larger Illinois schools in the St. Louis metro area in the same district with Joliet area schools.

The IHSA has turned shooting themselves in the foot into an art form.

 

[cornerrat]

No thoughts on any specific conferences. Rather, I have thoughts about conferences in general.

It's mystifying how so many schools seem to want to preserve and manipulate a system of conferences that is so obviously flawed and susceptible to hopping/shopping for the optimal situation which is so highly sought after but rarely achieved.

I'm glad that the CCL Blue is a competitive division, and I enjoy the rivalries, but if Loyola could be in a local district with the likes of NT, MS, Evanston, GBS, Notre Dame, etc., I would take that in a heartbeat over the CCL Blue and never look back.

The district proposal got shot down primarily because of the travel involved. However, from a travel perspective, districts would be more palatable in Illinois if we didn't have to arrange them according to eight enrollment based classes. If Illinois were to divide six classes into districts, we wouldn't see some of the larger Illinois schools in the St. Louis metro area in the same district with Joliet area schools.

The IHSA has turned shooting themselves in the foot into an art form.

All.... The first time I believe I have ever disagreed with you. "The IHSA has turned shooting themselves in the foot into an art form." Actually a bit higher in the mid region... Ratsy

 

[Cross Bones]

I have a bad feeling about this... really bad feeling.

 

[EdgyTim]

I have a feeling they will go back, form a committee and relook at the district proposal. Been hearing talk from more than a few pro football AD's telling me that "it's time to stop building conferences based off of football. It's not the same landscape and it's not working for a large majority anymore."

And Ramblinman Loyola has put out serious feelers multiple times about looking at various conferences and have been shut out almost immediately

 

[USD24]

I have a feeling they will go back, form a committee and relook at the district proposal. Been hearing talk from more than a few pro football AD's telling me that "it's time to stop building conferences based off of football. It's not the same landscape and it's not working for a large majority anymore."

And Ramblinman Loyola has put out serious feelers multiple times about looking at various conferences and have been shut out almost immediately

What conferences? I would think the ESCC would be their only other real option. Why are they being shut out immediately?

 

[whitesox05]

Just curious to see what happens up north with the CSL & NSC...the CSL currently has 11 schools for 2016-17 (down from 12) and the NSC has nine (down from 14).

If the CSL wants to add Vernon Hills, which has applied, that could've been done by now. Seems like there is more going on.

 

[ramblinman]

And Ramblinman Loyola has put out serious feelers multiple times about looking at various conferences and have been shut out almost immediately

Considering that LA has gone deep in the 8A playoffs with regularity in the Holecek era, I'm not the least bit surprised that they've been shut out. Not too many conferences out there are looking to add a school that will be a perennial conference champ and add another loss to the majority of schools in the conference.

That's one reason why the district proposal makes a lot of sense. Eliminate conferences and all the associated hanky panky of conference hopping and creative scheduling to get the magic six wins. Render obsolete the dreaded divisional crossover games in the CSL and CCL. Let the IHSA take all that over and objectively MANDATE who plays whom. They just need to fix the intra-district distance problem in the larger classes.

 

[Cross Bones]

LA would be a tough pickup for any conference, and being up North limits the possibilities more than say a more centralized location. There's not too many conferences anyways that I think would entertain it, although I think the best bet would be a conference that doesn't have competition at the top... like Maine South's.

Don't like the districts though. Yuck.

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

All.... The first time I believe I have ever disagreed with you. "The IHSA has turned shooting themselves in the foot into an art form." Actually a bit higher in the mid region... Ratsy

Rambl -

LA would be a tough pickup for any conference, and being up North limits the possibilities more than say a more centralized location. There's not too many conferences anyways that I think would entertain it, although I think the best bet would be a conference that doesn't have competition at the top... like Maine South's.

Don't like the districts though. Yuck.

Neither do i like the districts. Especially when I was a player. Kids love the travel and the experience. Let's not kid ourselves there.

The ihsa can manage conference changes/non-changes in other ways.

 

[EdgyTim]

Also had a good talk with a few downstate coaches and ADs regarding all of this especially last weekend down in the Southwestern schools. Seems that the feeling (also up here as well) is that the district idea is a solid one. The biggest issue they had (along with many others) was the radical examples provided via the original proposal. Example? Southwestern schools needing to travel to say Joliet West and Central in the same district. Also would that travel be required for all levels? Again I stand by the point that this will be far from a dead issue and I expect them to go back, rework some of these issues and come back with a better presentation. They also need to get more representation and get on board coaches/schools state wide and at all classes.

 

[pjjp]

I have a lot of respect for the schools in the ESCC, but that conference is a testament to the value of a district setup. There is simply too much travel involved. We all understand the reasons why private schools have difficulty joining conferences with public schools in the Chicago area. However, schools in the ESCC would be benefit more than most from a district setup. I would assert to public schools that the privates are in the same high school association. Why can't they be in public/private conferences?

 

[Cross Bones]

I have a lot of respect for the schools in the ESCC, but that conference is a testament to the value of a district setup. There is simply too much travel involved. We all understand the reasons why private schools have difficulty joining conferences with public schools in the Chicago area. However, schools in the ESCC would be benefit more than most from a district setup. I would assert to public schools that the privates are in the same high school association. Why can't they be in public/private conferences?

You've seen SHG right? I think districts would speed up the process of the inevitable split between the two. Who would be in JCA's district?

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I would love to see Lisle and Westmont find another place, let the I-8 bring in 2 schools that make better sense, such as Pontiac or maybe Morris

 

[pjjp]

You've seen SHG right? I think districts would speed up the process of the inevitable split between the two. Who would be in JCA's district?

Re-read my post. I said private schools in the Chicago area. SHG is not in the Chicago area.

Maybe districts would hasten a split. Maybe not. As it stands now, privates and publics are in the same athletic association, why not play more in the regular season under a district umbrella? Think about traveling from Joliet to Woodstock (Marian Central) for a girls basketball game during the week. Would districts benefit ESCC schools?

 

[HHSTigerFan]

The private schools have created their problems, there is a reason the public schools don't want them in their conferences in many cases.. now some people want the ihsa to force the publics into playing them??

 

[Cross Bones]

Re-read my post. I said private schools in the Chicago area. SHG is not in the Chicago area.

Maybe districts would hasten a split. Maybe not. As it stands now, privates and publics are in the same athletic association, why not play more in the regular season under a district umbrella? Think about traveling from Joliet to Woodstock (Marian Central) for a girls basketball game during the week. Would districts benefit ESCC schools?

I read your post. But your response doesn't quite address mine. The reason publics likely won't have privates in their conferences? Look at SHG for your answer. The schools in the CS8 are in a different situation, SHG literally has nowhere else to go, and those schools being close make scheduling easier. No such problems for public schools in Chicagoland. The other problem, which I alluded to, was think about who would be in a JCA district. We're not talking about LWE & Bolingbrook... We're talking about Plano and Coal City.

I agree, the travel is rough. I went to a couple JCA/Carmel games..............at Carmel. But I just don't see the public schools signing up for this. Possibly districts for publics and separate for privates. But together, I doubt. Remember, the multiplier isn't applied until the playoffs so the districts would be based on actual enrollment.

 

[Quags57]

Looks like there are some changes headed for the MSL and CSL.

http://football.dailyherald.com/article/20150511/sports/150519735/

 

[PowerI66]

Looks like there are some changes headed for the MSL and CSL.

http://football.dailyherald.com/article/20150511/sports/150519735/

The only thing I don't like about this is the whole "MSL West has dominated" argument. It has little to nothing to do with enrollment and everything to do with the state of the programs. Just like Hoffman being below average for so long. Not everybody can win all the time!

 

[ramblinman]

Rambl -

Neither do i like the districts. Especially when I was a player. Kids love the travel and the experience. Let's not kid ourselves there.

The ihsa can manage conference changes/non-changes in other ways.

I don't understand your comment about how kids love the travel and the experience. What travel and experience...going from Joliet to Mundelein (and now Woodstock) on a Friday evening?

I would be interested in learning what you think those other ways might be that the IHSA can manage conference changes. I came up with one not too long ago. Basically, it would require schools joining an existing conference (or forming a new one) to pay an entry fee into an interest bearing escrow account managed by the conference. Perhaps the funds could be based on enrollment, like $30 or $40 per student. If the school were to switch conferences prior to the completion of five years of conference membership, they would lose all their deposit and accumulated interest. Upon completion of ten years of conference membership, their full deposit plus interest would be returned.

Sorry, JChill, but there are too many shenanigans and maneuverings going on regarding scheduling and conference hopping in the current system.

Remember ten years or so ago when NOBODY wanted to schedule JCA in a non-con game and you guys had to SCRAMBLE to get Rockhurst to play you?

How many more conference shake ups are we going to see? How many more godawful crossover games are we going to be subjected to in the CCL and CSL?

Districts would take away all that crap.

 

[mc140]

I don't understand your comment about how kids love the travel and the experience. What travel and experience...going from Joliet to Mundelein (and now Woodstock) on a Friday evening?

I would be interested in learning what you think those other ways might be that the IHSA can manage conference changes. I came up with one not too long ago. Basically, it would require schools joining an existing conference (or forming a new one) to pay an entry fee into an interest bearing escrow account managed by the conference. Perhaps the funds could be based on enrollment, like $30 or $40 per student. If the school were to switch conferences prior to the completion of five years of conference membership, they would lose all their deposit and accumulated interest. Upon completion of ten years of conference membership, their full deposit plus interest would be returned.

Sorry, JChill, but there are too many shenanigans and maneuverings going on regarding scheduling and conference hopping in the current system.

Remember ten years or so ago when NOBODY wanted to schedule JCA in a non-con game and you guys had to SCRAMBLE to get Rockhurst to play you?

How many more conference shake ups are we going to see? How many more godawful crossover games are we going to be subjected to in the CCL and CSL?

Districts would take away all that crap.

Districts would give you just as many awful games as those CCL crossovers along with less good games.