According to my very reliable source....

[EdgyTim]

Look for East St. Louis to petition to play up in 7A come state playoff time in the 2015 season. Also understand that East Side would be a borderline 5A team in 2015 yet wants to play in 7A in large part to the true 1-32 seeding in place.

Gotta love that

 

[DeanOfSelection]

I personally deny their request so they can play JC in the 5A title game in the semi in lower 1-16. With SHG Montini in 6A JC needs someone to play.

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Look for East St. Louis to petition to play up in 7A come state playoff time in the 2015 season. Also understand that East Side would be a borderline 5A team in 2015 yet wants to play in 7A in large part to the true 1-32 seeding in place.

Gotta love that

do i really need to get into this again?

I mean, i pull for flyer - but at some point....

What is there to like about petitioning up? it's an awful rule and an awful idea.

Now - without getting too deep - which i am sure i will have to later - if Flyer is really a 7a school because it has kids eligible to play who do not count against it's enrollment - that is another thing. But i need to be refreshed on that.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

I am also mandating Rochester as 5A this season

 

[illini14]

Look for East St. Louis to petition to play up in 7A come state playoff time in the 2015 season. Also understand that East Side would be a borderline 5A team in 2015 yet wants to play in 7A in large part to the true 1-32 seeding in place.

Gotta love that

07-08 11-2 7A
08-09 13-1 7A State champs
09-10 10-3 7A
10-11 4-6 7A (did they get in at 4-5?)
11-12 9-3 7A
12-13 8-3 7A
13-14 9-4 6A

Might be time to smell the coffee in ESTL. Got to love the competitive fire and spirit, but this isn't the 80's any more when they were cranking out several titles in a decade. Wouldn't you want to have a real shot at winning in 5A or 6A? Doesn't make sense to me...

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

07-08 11-2 7A
08-09 13-1 7A State champs
09-10 10-3 7A
10-11 4-6 7A (did they get in at 4-5?)
11-12 9-3 7A
12-13 8-3 7A
13-14 9-4 6A

Might be time to smell the coffee in ESTL. Got to love the competitive fire and spirit, but this isn't the 80's any more when they were cranking out several titles in a decade. Wouldn't you want to have a real shot at winning in 5A or 6A? Doesn't make sense to me...

Exactly

 

[EdgyTim]

Soft.....your all soft.

 

[pjjp]

I personally deny their request so they can play JC in the 5A title game in the semi in lower 1-16. With SHG Montini in 6A JC needs someone to play.

Are we sure the success factor is in place for the 2015 season, which will push Montini and SHG up a class? Also, LWW should be very good this year. They will be strong contenders in 5A.

 

[EdgyTim]

In my loud shouting voice "the success factor is a go and has been a go since early in 2015."

 

[DeanOfSelection]

really sorry couldn't deliver Sat for u. had lead heading to bot 7 and bot 8th.

 

[pjjp]

Got it, Edgy. It's amazing how much confusion there is regarding some of the rule changes etc. I read a JC preview article today in the Joliet Herald, and there was talk about a possible JC/Montini matchup in the playoffs.

Dean...I saw that was a tough loss. The Celtics had 5 one-run victories in a row. Pretty impressive run, and they return 7 starters from what I've heard. Three-peat?

 

[WestSuburbanCatholicConference]

If they do that, that's awesome. Have to admire them for taking the tougher road. Especially when there is a good chance they will end up in a weak 5A, even if they are still in 6A, 6A is still weak. I can't remember 5A/6A being this weak. The handful of teams like SHG, Naz,Montini, JCA not talking about you, but after those teams the drop off is startling. This Montini team was "ok" compared to years past still made it to the ship, SHG basically put a running clock on everyone until the ship, then that Naz team just ran teams into the ground. But a team like Rochester would really benefit if they did this. Get to flex a little bit and 5A isnt that great, IF you get past the top teams not that scary of a class.

 

[LHSTigers94]

07-08 11-2 7A
08-09 13-1 7A State champs
09-10 10-3 7A
10-11 4-6 7A (did they get in at 4-5?)
11-12 9-3 7A
12-13 8-3 7A
13-14 9-4 6A

Might be time to smell the coffee in ESTL. Got to love the competitive fire and spirit, but this isn't the 80's any more when they were cranking out several titles in a decade. Wouldn't you want to have a real shot at winning in 5A or 6A? Doesn't make sense to me...

Perception is everything
06- Qtrs 7A
07- Semifinals 7A Lost to LWC and WWS
08- State Champs 7A Only lost to Braxton Miller and the gang
09- Semifinals 7A (The first time officially 6A as well as petition) Lost to two teams in Ohio and WWS
10- Undefeated and possibly the best team eliminated from playoffs (IHSA issue) 7A by enrollment
11- Qtrs 7A (Second petition with 6A enrollment) Georgia team and BE before losing to WWS in the playoffs.
12 - Second round lost to E'ville 7A
13 - Remained in 6A started the year off at 1-3 and lost in the semi's 7-6 with the only truly tough game being PC in the Qtrs.
14- Went into the playoffs at 5-4 with a second round victory over a 8-2 6A 67-14. ESL was not really good and made a run in the Qtrs (6A)

Looking at that, I ask what coffee should they be smelling? Everyone knows this is not the 80's but I will say there was no need to petition because it was only 6 classes. Go back to 6 classes and problem is solved.

Last part is this. For some people, a shot at winning the title is by going to lower classes hence the reason a lot of private supports would love to not have a multiplier. In their mind lower class easier championship. I personally feel that thought is completely wrong. The road to the championship maybe easier however the team you play wont be. Do you think HF would have rather faced Naz in the championship versus Stevie? Do you think PC believe that they would beat Naz with a running clock? I only use Naz because they were the 6A champs who can make a case for beating any team at State last year. Same could be said for SHG. To me its about all around competition. It takes the exact same effort to win in 6A as it does in 7A, 8A and even 5A. What you don't have to deal with in 7A and 8A is the local flavor with questionable officiating hoping to see the local favorite finally make it to State. What you don't have to see is kids taking unnecessary shots at the knees of certain kids looking to get some kind of competitive advantage. What you see in 7A and 8A is straight up football where the best team that day wins. No back yard officiating with hidden agendas. No unethical play by kids hoping to make history. It's Illinois football at its finest. I would much rather play at LWE, GBW, WWS, Bolingbrook, PC, HF etc than play in Peoria, Normal, etc. It's just a different kind of football. If I offend someone I apologize but I feel the quality of football is much better in 7A and 8A. That is just my opinion but, its one I have developed through experience. The best chance to win a Championship is play mistake free football against whatever team line up across from you. Everything else is soft thinking. I would rather earn a championship versus looking for the easiest way to get there. The good thing is we all are entitled to our opinions.

 

[flyerforlife]

Perception is everything
06- Qtrs 7A
07- Semifinals 7A Lost to LWC and WWS
08- State Champs 7A Only lost to Braxton Miller and the gang
09- Semifinals 7A (The first time officially 6A as well as petition) Lost to two teams in Ohio and WWS
10- Undefeated and possibly the best team eliminated from playoffs (IHSA issue) 7A by enrollment
11- Qtrs 7A (Second petition with 6A enrollment) Georgia team and BE before losing to WWS in the playoffs.
12 - Second round lost to E'ville 7A
13 - Remained in 6A started the year off at 1-3 and lost in the semi's 7-6 with the only truly tough game being PC in the Qtrs.
14- Went into the playoffs at 5-4 with a second round victory over a 8-2 6A 67-14. ESL was not really good and made a run in the Qtrs (6A)

Looking at that, I ask what coffee should they be smelling? Everyone knows this is not the 80's but I will say there was no need to petition because it was only 6 classes. Go back to 6 classes and problem is solved.

Last part is this. For some people, a shot at winning the title is by going to lower classes hence the reason a lot of private supports would love to not have a multiplier. In their mind lower class easier championship. I personally feel that thought is completely wrong. The road to the championship maybe easier however the team you play wont be. Do you think HF would have rather faced Naz in the championship versus Stevie? Do you think PC believe that they would beat Naz with a running clock? I only use Naz because they were the 6A champs who can make a case for beating any team at State last year. Same could be said for SHG. To me its about all around competition. It takes the exact same effort to win in 6A as it does in 7A, 8A and even 5A. What you don't have to deal with in 7A and 8A is the local flavor with questionable officiating hoping to see the local favorite finally make it to State. What you don't have to see is kids taking unnecessary shots at the knees of certain kids looking to get some kind of competitive advantage. What you see in 7A and 8A is straight up football where the best team that day wins. No back yard officiating with hidden agendas. No unethical play by kids hoping to make history. It's Illinois football at its finest. I would much rather play at LWE, GBW, WWS, Bolingbrook, PC, HF etc than play in Peoria, Normal, etc. It's just a different kind of football. If I offend someone I apologize but I feel the quality of football is much better in 7A and 8A. That is just my opinion but, its one I have developed through experience. The best chance to win a Championship is play mistake free football against whatever team line up across from you. Everything else is soft thinking. I would rather earn a championship versus looking for the easiest way to get there. The good thing is we all are entitled to our opinions.

BINGO!!!!!!! He said it best

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

BINGO!!!!!!! He said it best

No...not really. I will double-back that perception, and show why it is not...

in the same time period (2006-present) JCA has a 6A title, and two second place finishes (one by a two point conversion with 30 seconds left). We've never missed the playoffs and have one 10 game season while the rest are above that...a few quarters and a few semis - many of those loses came to montini during their 4 peat. This has been considered a "down time" for JCA...

In my opinion, JCA's playoff resume is as least as good as Flyer's since 2006. But all of that is beside the point. Why, because neither JCA nor Flyer are presently dynasties. Nothing about their accomplishments over the last few years demonstrates they were not competing in the appropriate class. In fact, show demonstrates the exact opposite. Flyer is a good program, with damn good players, but is still without a title in six years....

Further, look at the last three years which are more relevant as some kids were in the program during this period: a second round loss and two losses in the quarters. We can qualify those losses as "tough" all we want...but other teams lost "tough" games too...the fact of the matter is, where is the success that makes one believe you are not in the appropriate class? What has Flyer done that should allow them to dictate where another team ends up...which will be the effect...

I boxed for quite some time in the amateur circuit...usually i cut weight to get into the 155lb range....I won a few small awards in that class....am i supposed to be patted on the back because I arrogantly think that because of that i should jump up to 180 to show i am tough? Nope.

I do agree with LHS...by the time you get to the title game in 5-8, typically all those teams can compete with each other...however, getting their is a much different story. And if you are not getting there in 6A...not sure why 7A is the right move.

Flyer will not be the favorite to win 7A, they would not have been the favorite to win 6A...so not assuming a state title, when it's all over - is the point that Flyer can see "well, at least we played in 7A?" cause if so, i'm kind of left wanting? While in the flip side, is winning the 7A title all that more telling than winning the 6A title, especially using LHS point that the title games take the same amount of effort?

Can't we just go back to 6 classes...ugh

Good luck Flyer - I pull for the traditions, but I can't understand the reasoning other than being able to say - look at us. Had Flyer ripped off a few titles lately, maybe things are different, but facts are facts.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

Rochester should petition up to at least 5A. FE would solve ALL of this though

 

[LHSTigers94]

No...not really. I will double-back that perception, and show why it is not...

in the same time period (2006-present) JCA has a 6A title, and two second place finishes (one by a two point conversion with 30 seconds left). We've never missed the playoffs and have one 10 game season while the rest are above that...a few quarters and a few semis - many of those loses came to montini during their 4 peat. This has been considered a "down time" for JCA...

In my opinion, JCA's playoff resume is as least as good as Flyer's since 2006. But all of that is beside the point. Why, because neither JCA nor Flyer are presently dynasties. Nothing about their accomplishments over the last few years demonstrates they were not competing in the appropriate class. In fact, show demonstrates the exact opposite. Flyer is a good program, with damn good players, but is still without a title in six years....

Further, look at the last three years which are more relevant as some kids were in the program during this period: a second round loss and two losses in the quarters. We can qualify those losses as "tough" all we want...but other teams lost "tough" games too...the fact of the matter is, where is the success that makes one believe you are not in the appropriate class? What has Flyer done that should allow them to dictate where another team ends up...which will be the effect...

I boxed for quite some time in the amateur circuit...usually i cut weight to get into the 155lb range....I won a few small awards in that class....am i supposed to be patted on the back because I arrogantly think that because of that i should jump up to 180 to show i am tough? Nope.

I do agree with LHS...by the time you get to the title game in 5-8, typically all those teams can compete with each other...however, getting their is a much different story. And if you are not getting there in 6A...not sure why 7A is the right move.

Flyer will not be the favorite to win 7A, they would not have been the favorite to win 6A...so not assuming a state title, when it's all over - is the point that Flyer can see "well, at least we played in 7A?" cause if so, i'm kind of left wanting? While in the flip side, is winning the 7A title all that more telling than winning the 6A title, especially using LHS point that the title games take the same amount of effort?

Can't we just go back to 6 classes...ugh

Good luck Flyer - I pull for the traditions, but I can't understand the reasoning other than being able to say - look at us. Had Flyer ripped off a few titles lately, maybe things are different, but facts are facts.

JC,
You missed the entire point but, I understand that as well based on your feeling. There is nothing to chest bump about with this. There isn't anything to brag on. It's preference as stated before. Team A would rather play Team B if possible. There is nothing to say whether team A could beat B, C or D. If there is an option, which it is, Team A would like to play in a class that will allow them to face Team B. PERIOD, end of story. Only 8 teams win a title per year. Does that mean all 700 plus teams aren't good?

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

JC,
You missed the entire point but, I understand that as well based on your feeling. There is nothing to chest bump about with this. There isn't anything to brag on. It's preference as stated before. Team A would rather play Team B if possible. There is nothing to say whether team A could beat B, C or D. If there is an option, which it is, Team A would like to play in a class that will allow them to face Team B. PERIOD, end of story. Only 8 teams win a title per year. Does that mean all 700 plus teams aren't good?

LHS - i hear ya, too. A lot of this for me comes down to letting the IHSA off the hook too. IMO, the onus should be on them to determine a class system, and let the kids play. their needless re-configuring has even HS junkies confused.

I would have much less heartburn with the petition idea if you could do so after week 9. There is no reason why that cannot be done, either. Forcing coaches to make that choice preseason, when all the players are healthy is just dumb. As you know, teams look a lot different after week 9 than before week 1 - and often for unpredictable reasons. Now we are asking coaches to be good guessers in addition to good coaches. And in my opinion, the detriment falls squarely on the coaches.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

what if u petition up and your qb and 2 DL and LB are out for year after week 6

 

[LHSTigers94]

LHS - i hear ya, too. A lot of this for me comes down to letting the IHSA off the hook too. IMO, the onus should be on them to determine a class system, and let the kids play. their needless re-configuring has even HS junkies confused.

I would have much less heartburn with the petition idea if you could do so after week 9. There is no reason why that cannot be done, either. Forcing coaches to make that choice preseason, when all the players are healthy is just dumb. As you know, teams look a lot different after week 9 than before week 1 - and often for unpredictable reasons. Now we are asking coaches to be good guessers in addition to good coaches. And in my opinion, the detriment falls squarely on the coaches.

Point well taken!

 

[LHSTigers94]

what if u petition up and your qb and 2 DL and LB are out for year after week 6

I don't see how that will impact anything. That can happen regardless of what class you are in. I will also add Most teams can't win three classes lower if that type of injury bug take place. Injuries are part of the game. The year ESL won state, 4 of the starting five O lineman as well as the other stud receiver wasn't available for the second round game against DLS. Kids either step up or you lose. The same would be said if ESL was in 6A, 5A, or even 4A. I am not sure I understand your point.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

Just spitballing. Ok now we have 1-32 . next objective lets push for FE. Would solve so many problems.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Just spitballing. Ok now we have 1-32 . next objective lets push for FE. Would solve so many problems.

Good point, who wouldn't want to be a part of 1-32? Guest what, only 7A and 8A have that ability. Another good reason for the move. Keep them coming

 

[DeanOfSelection]

pretty much IHSA just needs to bring everything back they HAD in first place except I am a realist and I know 8 classes is staying which is why I LOVE success factor. cmon if PC wins this year 7A they are 8A next year with that great class how awesome is that.

 

[WestSuburbanCatholicConference]

Both reasonings are correct. If you are within the rules and have not been rolling in the titles in 7A/8A, why makes things more difficult for yourself, if a championship is well in your reach in 5A/6A? As a program if you hold yourself to a higher standard of play, why not accept the harder challenge if you believe your program is on that level? As far as the level of difficulty, 5A/6A are an absolute cake walk until you get to those top tier teams. It is much easier to stumble in rounds 1 & 2 in 7A/8A and I feel still it will be even with the 1-32. Look at Stevenson almost dropping the ball last year vs LT in the first round. While LT maybe the most underachieving program in the state, 8A/7A playoffs are filled with teams with depth & talent, hard to find teams like that in the early rounds of 5 & 6A

 

[DeanOfSelection]

the success factor kinda takes care of the petitioning up. SHOULD apply to all programs though ie Rochester

 

[LHSTigers94]

Both reasonings are correct. If you are within the rules and have not been rolling in the titles in 7A/8A, why makes things more difficult for yourself, if a championship is well in your reach in 5A/6A? As a program if you hold yourself to a higher standard of play, why not accept the harder challenge if you believe your program is on that level? As far as the level of difficulty, 5A/6A are an absolute cake walk until you get to those top tier teams. It is much easier to stumble in rounds 1 & 2 in 7A/8A and I feel still it will be even with the 1-32. Look at Stevenson almost dropping the ball last year vs LT in the first round. While LT maybe the most underachieving program in the state, 8A/7A playoffs are filled with teams with depth & talent, hard to find teams like that in the early rounds of 5 & 6A

First I agree. I also believe that the harder the road is to the finals the better prepared you are. I look at the 08 Championship year. Overcoming adversity against Rita help tremendously in the game against GBW. When I look at your two points, A title is VERY difficult to come by. I know everyone has that goal in mind but, the reality is something special has to happen. In 40 years of football, no team is close to 20 titles in any class. Yes there are periods of domination however if it were that easy some one should have at least 20 titles by now right? The one thing you can control is the level of competition you play outside of your conference. It's great for the kids to see how well they stack up and it is great film to use in recruiting. Above all that if you are a competitor, you like to compete at the highest level possible. I personally feel there is no difference between 7A and 8A so either one I would consider the highest level. I am sure there are teams in the SEC who could join the big 12 and have a better chance of getting a title. I am sure Illinois could be the best team in the MAC. Why play at a lower level just for a chance at something that is not guaranteed. If there was a way for ESL to join the "Blue" or the DVC, I would be all in.

 

[WestSuburbanCatholicConference]

all good points being made, disagree just on semantics. All for the success factor, rather go back 6 classes (dare I even say less?) Naz had such an easy walk to the title without playing schools like Montini & SHG who too similar not to play each other (nothing against Naz I thought behind PC they were the #2 team in the state they just played cupcakes).

My fantasy world work something like 4 class (7/8 = 4A, 6/5=3A, etc). Have your privates on one side, publics on the other, everyone is happy. More competitive, an equal # private/public are guarantee to make it to the championship, then settle who is best on the field. Maybe not enough privates to field an entire side of bracket but it can be close.

 

[Cross Bones]

I dont like the opt up rule because of the application of it, but I applaud those that do it. If you see yourself as in the class of 7A schools, then play 7A. Even if you dont win championships every year. Sometimes you are a good 7A team, other times not so much and you get shown the exit. Its the way it should be. I want to see Rochester and SHG opt up. I would welcome them both to 8A. I'll take this time to opt down into 4A and take Rochester's place in the south bracket.

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

pretty much IHSA just needs to bring everything back they HAD in first place except I am a realist and I know 8 classes is staying which is why I LOVE success factor. cmon if PC wins this year 7A they are 8A next year with that great class how awesome is that.

except for all we know, the PC team two years from now will be junk, and forced to play in a class that was based on how well kids who are now juniors in college played.

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Well, you made a lot of money this year, next year, we'll just assume you will make more...we are putting you in a higher tax bracket, no matter what you actually make.

 

[mc140]

You cant wait until week 9 because if say a 7a team becomes a clear cut favorite to win you will have a bunch of teams petitioning up to 8a if it is less clear cut.

 

[mc140]

Just spitballing. Ok now we have 1-32 . next objective lets push for FE. Would solve so many problems.

You would be better off going to districts than back to Football enrollment. Scheduling is dam near impossible now, add in football enrollment you have even less options non conference. Plus it would lead to even more teams leaving conferences where they are the smallest.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

I am just going to tell teams where they are placed based on enrollment, schedule etc ie Rochester 5A, JC 6A, Montini 6A, they have no say in the matter

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

You cant wait until week 9 because if say a 7a team becomes a clear cut favorite to win you will have a bunch of teams petitioning up to 8a if it is less clear cut.

in theory - yes. But in theory now, all the (expected) 5a teams could petition up to 8a, take all of those places, then claim to be the best in state because they won 8a.

I hear what you are saying, but i can't remember a situation going into the playoffs where one team was such a favorite to win 7a or 8a that it caused such panic - which in your example it would be. In fact, IMO, there are more clear cut favorites to win a class preseason than after week 9. Look how much more difficult it is to rank after week 9 than week 1.

Again - 6 classes fixes all of this.

 

[TPF523]

all good points being made, disagree just on semantics. All for the success factor, rather go back 6 classes (dare I even say less?) Naz had such an easy walk to the title without playing schools like Montini & SHG who too similar not to play each other (nothing against Naz I thought behind PC they were the #2 team in the state they just played cupcakes).

My fantasy world work something like 4 class (7/8 = 4A, 6/5=3A, etc). Have your privates on one side, publics on the other, everyone is happy. More competitive, an equal # private/public are guarantee to make it to the championship, then settle who is best on the field. Maybe not enough privates to field an entire side of bracket but it can be close.

Maybe but Naz running clocked St Francis who destroyed Montini. Naz also clocked Lake Forest who played Stevie very tough.

 

[WestSuburbanCatholicConference]

Maybe but Naz running clocked St Francis who destroyed Montini. Naz also clocked Lake Forest who played Stevie very tough.

thats why I thought that naz was the 2nd best team. I live in the western burbs and saw them play vs JCA, Francis, & Lake Forest. I did not realize that Lake Forest played Stevie that tough.. Im looking at videos online of that. I hate using the argument Team A beats team B, then Team C beats team A so then team C is better than team B, but that Naz team whooped that Lake forest team, it wasnt even close, it could have been 1st and 50 and you still felt like naz was going to get the first. I remember an obvious 3 and long pass play were all 5 lineman pancaked the LF dline on an obvious pass play which was impressive. Then that francis game was just embarrassing.. I got a hot dog and it was 28-0, naz could have scored 100 if they wanted. Didnt that francis team beat Fenwick, Montini, and lose to BR by 1? I was on the francis sideline, fans and players were awfully cocky going into that game.

 

[mchsalumni]

Maybe but Naz running clocked St Francis who destroyed Montini. Naz also clocked Lake Forest who played Stevie very tough.

I think we have long established this to not be a proper gauge.

With that said, I do believe Naz was a top 4 team last year, before all the Naz folks get their panties in a bunch.

 

[WestSuburbanCatholicConference]

I think we have long established this to not be a proper gauge.

With that said, I do believe Naz was a top 4 team last year, before all the Naz folks get their panties in a bunch.

dont mean to derail a thread and being so new.. but like I mentioned in my post its a bad argument. BUT naz didnt just beat those teams, they annihilated them,it was like watching a varsity vs jv.

While Im derailing a thread, one of these days I cant wait to see Naz vs Montini one of these days. I might sound rediculous but I feel its the biggest rivalry of two schools who have actually never played each other. Lots of animosity between the two sides outside of the forum.

 

[godfthr53]

dont mean to derail a thread and being so new.. but like I mentioned in my post its a bad argument. BUT naz didnt just beat those teams, they annihilated them,it was like watching a varsity vs jv.

While Im derailing a thread, one of these days I cant wait to see Naz vs Montini one of these days. I might sound rediculous but I feel its the biggest rivalry of two schools who have actually never played each other. Lots of animosity between the two sides outside of the forum.

Naz and montini used to play.