Put SHG and Naz in Stevenson's spot in 8A. How far do you have each going?
A better question
- Thread starter DeanOfSelection
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Interesting. I think both teams would first struggle with Loyola. I think SHG would not make there, but Naz would stand an even chance or better. Next real challenges would be GW and you can guess how I feel about that. Last year's Naz team would be very competitive but maybe not so much SHG. But they are still very good.
I guess would SHG/Naz in 8A in 3 out of 4 weeks beat LA, @GW on that slop field , H-F on the turf?
I think the slop field would have played into Naz favor with the O Line they had. I think all 3 would have been good games but HF would have given them the toughest matchup of the 4 teams mentioned. I still only think of the champions that Provi would have given Naz the biggest problems. The Naz defense was much better than given credit. Don't forget that Naz starters sat out a total of 18 of 56 quarters this year and was done by half in every playoff game until Champaign. They did look very sluggish in the first half against Lemont but I think having 12-15 kids in the hospital as late as Friday night had something to do with it.
still its "Lemont"-best team Naz played all year was a JC team who was good but not a top JC team-won 24-21 on a blocked fg
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You can say that about any of the teams having an off game. Stevenson just beat a bad LT team by 4. The score doesn't always prove out anything. Naz also doubled Lemonts Time of possession which in my eyes shows how much they dominated the second half. At one point in the 2nd half Naz ran the ball 34 consecutive plays. We will just have difference of opinion on how good Stevenson really was.
You guys know a lot more than I about Naz and SHG. I'll take a look at both of them this year.I know they both have outstanding programs and deserve respect. SHG is too far away to see in person but maybe I could get to Naz for a game. A personal observation about illinois HS football is that the top couple of teams in 5A through 8A are always just killer programs. Maybe we could get the ihsa to dedicate December to a shootout of state champs. Christmas Day play for the real state champion. Lol.
Stevenson winning at 8A finalist HF- beating them twice- and at 12-0 GW is good enough for me. Those are signature wins.
Who did CG beat that makes them 16 pts better than Naz in your eyes? Or are you basing that solely off their close loss to Providence?
going off their 31-28 loss to what majority of posters think was the best team last year. A team Cary ran for 300 yards on, had more first downs v 22-19 and 9 mins more TOP on.
Typical blah blah about Cary Grove - yet all they do is win. I guess since they aren't playing in a glamorous conference they don't get the board love but DOS put it best - running for over 300 yards and an underclassman doing most of the damage against against a PC team that defensively looked unbeatable makes me a believer. Who cares who they beat along the way. Who exactly did Naz or SHG beat along the way in the playoffs?
Newt - I'm one of those who had to eat crow when it came to cary last season. It is interesting that they always suffer from a lack of board respect here. We have a few good CG posters, they have a solid history, if not impressive, and often have a well coached, hard nosed defense. All things that should lend toward them receiving the benefit of the doubt. I watch a lot of games, have no ill will toward CG, really don't care about their conference, saw them play (via flim) several times, yet still - kept them out of my top ten all season....can't explain it other than to say I thought others were better, I was wrong.
All that said, I still had them behind SHG who i felt was underrated by most people all season as back to back champions and behind Naz, who i just felt had a ton of diversity on offense and would ultimately win because of that reason.
This is the same group that is saying two private 5a or 6a schools can beat 8a schools (state champ?)more often than not ("in 3 out of 4 weeks")complaining that they shouldn't be moved up a class due to enrollment? What am I missing here?
Cary best win was probly beating 9-1 Geneva badly. And losing to PC's best team since either 01 or 96 like that so impressive.
Bally ,who are those people who are complaining and are also saying the 5a and 6a schools can beat the 8a state champions? Or is that just something you are saying?
I think you are missing something. Not sure they are the same people.
Put SHG and Naz in Stevenson's spot in 8A. How far do you have each going?
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5A and 6A schools do not have the DEPTH (ie enrollment levels) to make a run through the 7A & 8A playoff brackets to win 5 straight playoff games in a row. So I don't really like this question.
Yes, If there were a final 4 with SHG, Stevenson, Provi and Naz I do believe SHG and Naz can win 2 games in a row against great 7A and 8A schools but they don't have the DEPTH to win 5 straight games playing in the 7A or 8A brackets.
Wassup
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5A and 6A schools do not have the DEPTH (ie enrollment levels) to make a run through the 7A & 8A playoff brackets to win 5 straight playoff games in a row. So I don't really like this question.
Yes, If there were a final 4 with SHG, Stevenson, Provi and Naz I do believe SHG and Naz can win 2 games in a row against great 7A and 8A schools but they don't have the DEPTH to win 5 straight games playing in the 7A or 8A brackets.
Wassup
Yes, it is true most 5A/6A would have depth issues going against larger schools. But it is a lazy argument for this case. SHG depth wouldn't be their first concern, it would be their starters. For Naz it wouldn't be too big of a concern at all.
When you have over 10 players getting D1 looks and your 4th option on offense is a 6'3 wide receiver who got a full ride to D1 program. And your best running back was out with an injury until the playoffs and you still go 9-0 and win the escc. Can you really say this team lacks depth?
Lets say naz loses 2 lineman, they still would have 2 D1 players on that oline.
They could lose #1, #2 and they would still have Julian Love running the ball with a D1 wide out. So I dont see were "the lack of depth" argument comes into place. Didnt naz use 2 QBs' as well?
Match up wise LA had everything SHG had and more. LA was a more athletic team. Looking back at the tape I dont see any match ups on the field that would favorite SHG. SHG would have to play their best, have a couple balls bounce their way, and for LA to have an off day to see SHG winning.
But a specific question for Dean, based on your predictions, you are very skeptical of naz, Im just wondering how you came to that conclusion? Is their something in the film I am not seeing? Ive re-watched all these teams and stand by my predictions. Maybe the move from the south side to the western burbs has put me at biased for the team that plays close to my backyard.
West Suburban Cat,
If you think the game is played with 12-18 players on each team you are badly mistaken. For a playoff run to win 5 consecutive games in a row, players #15 though 32 play a very important role and those who have the best 15-32 players are those schools which have 2500-3000 actual students under their roof.
As far as SHG, you have to find a way to beat QB Gabe Green. He will run the ball all over you and if you contain him, so what, he can also pass very well. You not only have to stop Green but who I believe is one of the top coaches in IL HS football in Leonard and his system is tremendous.
I would actually like to see SHG show up at one of the Red Grange 7 on 7's to see if there is any team which can stop their passing game here in Chicagoland. That would be a big treat to see.
Wassup
If you think the game is played with 12-18 players on each team you are badly mistaken. For a playoff run to win 5 consecutive games in a row, players #15 though 32 play a very important role and those who have the best 15-32 players are those schools which have 2500-3000 actual students under their roof.
As far as SHG, you have to find a way to beat QB Gabe Green. He will run the ball all over you and if you contain him, so what, he can also pass very well. You not only have to stop Green but who I believe is one of the top coaches in IL HS football in Leonard and his system is tremendous.
I would actually like to see SHG show up at one of the Red Grange 7 on 7's to see if there is any team which can stop their passing game here in Chicagoland. That would be a big treat to see.
Wassup
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With a few notable exceptions (Montini one year, Naz last year), I think the depth issue is a real concern. I think SHG would have had a real tough time in 7A or 8A last year in either a 2 or 5 game run. Naz would have had a tough track in 7A or 8A over 5 games, but I feel they would have help up for 2, and would have been in the semi's in 7A or 8A in a 5 game run. No matter how many D1 players you have on the roster, there is still the issue of backup depth. It's not about losing 2 D1 OL and still having 2. It's about losing 2 OL and having a kid 5'9" 175 come in as his backup. Less likely at higher enrollment, purely based on numbers alone.
IMO, while the depth issue is true 90% of the time, maybe more, it is not always the case - and i do not think it would have been the case for either Naz or SHG. I just think neither would have won.
let's be honest here: cary was the smallest 7a school and PC was the 3rd smallest 7a school. One cannot allege with a straight face that a 6a school could not win the 7a or 8a title by way of a tournament given those facts. Cary and PC were basically 6a schools.
I still think it would have been a problem for SHG last year, as they were thin in some areas of the field with their starters. Great team, no doubt, but definitely 5A or 6A, not competitive in 7A or 8A.
not competitive or could not win the title?
Because 90% of the teams in the 7a and 8a bracket had no chance of winning the 7a or 8a title. If SHG or Naz got a decent draw, they are playing week 3 in the playoffs - That's a shot.
A shot yes, but unlikely semi slot for SHG, based on what I saw over 3 games.
Naz, yes, semi's likely. Title? Not so much likely, IMO.
Not a great example Dean, as it was raining sideways and blowing 30 from the west to the east. Dry track with little wind and that's a different game. Not an excuse for the loss, but that type of element is not good for MCHS. At all.
I can agree with that.
Did you find the SHG team two years ago much better than last season's?
I would argue 2013 was more explosive than 2014. 2014 was a great team, no question, but not as good.
this is why I absolutely love the success factor. can watch it play out especially Montini in 7A in 2016.
Fortunately that class, as seniors, will be pretty good. Will need to be to compete at that level, but I'm all for it.
...and that is exactly the problem. Say that would not be a good montini class. then all you are getting is a watered down bracket because of some weird formula...
Again, why are we bumping up a team in the future that we know nothing about because a team three years ago was good? maybe if all the players came back for a sixth year or something...
Maybe youre looking at it backwards?
Maybe this year's team is simply a bad 7A team and should get clocked...
True, Montini's class of 2017 is loaded but to be competitive in class 7A they are going to have to land more big linemen into the school.
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that doesn't make any sense.
we can use JCA...assume they made the title game last year - a real possibility and not hard to imagine. This year, they will be very competitive again...next year, we will have a hard time competing if 5a because the roster is very atypical...yet...for some reason - that is the JCA team you want in 6a?
a team should be put in its class based on its merits (if not by enrollment) not some team from 3 years ago. I mean, i would kind of get it if a team made two title games and in the third season was again undefeated - fine - at that point, push them up. But if a team 3 years from now has 40 kids on the roster and went 5-4...i don't think that is the team that should be pushed up. It's not good for anyone. Those kids' have their fate decided by kids they likely didn't really even know, some other team gets pushed down - maybe against their will; and the fans are cheated because the classes get watered down. it makes no sense.
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